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Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

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Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 Empty Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:19 pm
First topic message reminder :

Alan

I asked before but got no response, so here goes again - is there any evidence that Buell came into money after the assassination? It has been raised before in situations like this that where someone who appears to be involved in a cover-up seems to come into a lot of money. Was there some carrot or was it all stick that is keeping him silent?

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Sun 08 Sep 2019, 8:41 am
Item 2.
WC Notes

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19RcMB3SpO5AYRbJuRWK-C5ILPYyHMdze/view?usp=sharing

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Sun 08 Sep 2019, 9:41 am
barto wrote:Item 2.
WC Notes

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19RcMB3SpO5AYRbJuRWK-C5ILPYyHMdze/view?usp=sharing
Thanks for posting Barto.

Frazier and his sister nailed Oswald. They knew exactly what they were doing. The question is Why? In my view there is nothing, zero - to support the idea that Frazier or his sister saw Oswald with a sack on the morning of the assassination large enough to carry a rifle.

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Sun 08 Sep 2019, 2:43 pm
Frazier still seems to be keeping quite a lot of secrets.

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Sun 08 Sep 2019, 3:11 pm
Vinny wrote:Frazier still seems to be keeping quite a lot of secrets.
Yep! And it would seem some were onto this way back. There is as near as I can tell no corroborating witnesses for the sack carrying Oswald that Friday morning. If there were they would've been paraded very publicly. No the Frazier's and the Randle's for mine are still a part of the puzzle.

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Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 Empty Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Sat 12 Oct 2019, 12:40 am
Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 5335-DCED-A523-49-E6-984-E-0837-DB6-C68-D5
"Givens said that during the past few days Lee had commented that he rode to work with a boy named Wesley."


There it is again. No wonder Givens yelled out asking where his rider was! Oswald had told him in recent days that he rode to work with Wes.

It is possible that Wes simply misunderstood or that Oswald never explained it was only one day a week, but I can only go by what I would have said - that is, I get a ride once a week and the other days I walk/catch a bus. I don't see the point in giving half an answer... 

What this also tells us is that Givens must not have noticed Wes arriving previous to Nov 22, which also seems a bit odd/convenient.

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Sat 31 Oct 2020, 10:35 am
Excerpt: Voice of Buell Frazier. Credit Vinny




In Frazier’s opinion, his childhood had ended at age ten, when his stepfather put him to work doing whatever it took to pay his room and board —twenty dollars a week. Occasionally, Frazier’s mother managed to persuade her husband to give her son a quarter from what he had earned. The boy knew that if he did not have the twenty dollars at the end of the week, he
would have no place to sleep. At such a young age, he was limited in the types of jobs he could do. So, Frazier performed odd jobs around town and mowed lawns from dawn to dusk, no matter how hot it was.


“I remember a nice lady offering me a Mason jar of sweet tea one hot afternoon,” he said quietly, “but my stepfather happened to walk around the corner of her house as she was handing it to me.” He berated the boy for stopping long enough to drink a glass of tea, and when the woman told him of her insistence, the stepfather made it clear that his stepson was to do only what his stepfather told him to do.


This wasn’t the first time neighbors objected to the way the stepfather treated Frazier; another man gave the stepfather a piece of his mind on finding out that the boy kept only fifty cents from what he was paid for mowing the large lawn. Once again, the stepfather was adamant that he controlled his household. Frazier finally convinced the people trying to help him that it would be worse for him at home if they said anything in his defense.


School was not a priority to Frazier’s stepfather, but it was to his stepson.As soon as Buell Wesley Frazier left school each day, he was expected to work at a diner near Sam Houston State University. The grill did not close until midnight, so that is when the boy headed home each evening, knowing he had homework that needed to be completed. He also knew that he dare not turn on a single light in the house because it would awaken his stepfather. 



He did as much homework as he could by moonlight. “I might be able to stay awake thirty minutes or so, but then I would just fall asleep and I had to get up at 6:00 in the morning to feed the animals and help with chores around the house.” Frazier lived in fear of his stepfather’s temper and what would happen to him if he crossed him. Sleeping late was never an option.


Frazier’s stepfather was not the only frightening individual in the young man’s life. He also knew “Pete” Kay, who was, along with his father, an important figure in the Dixie Mafia. According to Frazier, they offered him the chance to become a member of the “family.” By then, Frazier had already met one group member, a man so heartless that locking eyes with him made his blood run cold. Frazier identified this man as Charles Harrelson; others who knew Harrelson also commented on how coldly he could stare down someone. Frazier decided to take his sister’s advice and not take up the offer.



If this is an accurate account of Frazier's stepfather then it's hard to imagine Buell racing off to visit the man in hospital immediately after the assassination. 

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Sat 31 Oct 2020, 1:24 pm
Agreed Mick. Looks like the stepfather visit was an excuse. I guess he wanted to avoid the police. Maybe Linnie came up with that idea.

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Tue 23 Mar 2021, 10:19 am
Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 15730710

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Wed 24 Mar 2021, 7:46 pm
Interview with Buell and his son.

https://www.stitcher.com/show/since-were-on-the-subject/episode/episode-54-the-wheel-man-driving-mr-oswald-with-buell-wesley-frazier-79629284

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Mon 07 Jun 2021, 7:48 pm
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Tue 08 Jun 2021, 11:55 am
Thanks Bart, I've really only ever seen page 2 of this doc so thanks for posting. It now has some context. Cheers.

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Tue 08 Jun 2021, 11:56 am
There is nothing in Linnie Mae's file folder at the Archives either, zip, zero, nada. Been emptied out by someone.

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Tue 10 Aug 2021, 11:11 pm
Mick_Purdy wrote:
If this is an accurate account of Frazier's stepfather then it's hard to imagine Buell racing off to visit the man in hospital immediately after the assassination. 

Hmmmm he hears they found a Enfield at the TSBD, shat himself, and ran to get some help from Dixie Mafia go between, his stepfather.
Just a wild stab...
Ed
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Wed 11 Aug 2021, 11:20 pm
Ed.Ledoux wrote:
Mick_Purdy wrote:
If this is an accurate account of Frazier's stepfather then it's hard to imagine Buell racing off to visit the man in hospital immediately after the assassination. 

Hmmmm he hears they found a Enfield at the TSBD, shat himself, and ran to get some help from Dixie Mafia go between, his stepfather.
Just a wild stab...
Ed

 Perhaps he was backup patsy in case Lee was not available.

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Thu 12 Aug 2021, 11:58 am
A possibility Vinny!
Basement would not be kind to Buell ... neither TSBD or DPDs.
Lee being low man might be on Will Call duty during lunch, next in line is Buell if Lee was absent.

I've always thought that is what was meant by the Big Bosses comment:
He Wasn't Supposed To Leave The Building

Only reason I can fathom is Lee had to watch the Will Call counter.
Then that comment makes sense.

Otherwise it makes no sense as everyone employed was said to be able to go out to buy lunch, from a Roach Coach or to the sandwich shop nearby.


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Thu 12 Aug 2021, 1:15 pm
Ed.Ledoux wrote:
Mick_Purdy wrote:
If this is an accurate account of Frazier's stepfather then it's hard to imagine Buell racing off to visit the man in hospital immediately after the assassination. 

Hmmmm he hears they found a Enfield at the TSBD, shat himself, and ran to get some help from Dixie Mafia go between, his stepfather.
Just a wild stab...
Ed
Too right Ed,

So, Wes either dashes off to see "Pappy" immediately after the assassination because he's feeling all guilty an' all because Mumma can't get there because she can't drive,

or

He tears off to see "Pappy" for some Dixie Mafia lovin' - he needs help 'cause he's thinks he might be implicated in the murder of JFK for some reason.

#1 doesn't sit with me - never has.

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Thu 12 Aug 2021, 3:57 pm
YES, why not take Mum too ta see da ball buster.

Is this where Buell calls Linnie Mae and she gets the assistance of a Real Fatherly figure.

Just want to nail down the logistics
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Tue 18 Jan 2022, 10:55 am
I know I'm new and behind the curve on this, by years, but I went through all of part A and part B of this thread and didn't see reference to the source document for CE 1799 and origin of the Willie Randle ride, the 12/4/63 report of Irving Postal Inspectors Niewoehner and McCoy:

Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 Randle10

Has WBF ever mentioned anything about having a conversation with Mrs. Roberts? Not that I know of but I haven't looked into this very much. Interesting detail is the information on Roberts' source, Willie Randle himself according to this report, was included in the first draft of CE 1799 then removed before submission to the Warren Commission:

Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 Ce_1_d10

Then here is the final draft which has been excerpted in this thread several times:

Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 1799_f10

The final draft was submitted on 1/17/64, then on 1/22/64 the FBI interviewed Willie Randle - though the Secret Service had interviewed him on 11/28/63. As discussed earlier in the thread, Mrs. Roberts was allegedly present during the discussion of getting Oswald a job at the TSBD, which is an interesting wrinkle.

Also, Roberts supposedly told Schneider about the package, but did she recant to the FBI? This was also discussed already at some point in this thread I'm pretty sure but it's an interesting detail nonetheless:


Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 Ed_rob10




There's also some interesting correspondence between the Commission and Postal Inspection Service from the day before the final draft of CE 1799 was submitted:


Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 Pi_wc_10

The first response was this:

Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 Pi_rep11

Then they sent a correction:

Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 Pi_tel10

Forgive me if I missed something and this has all already been discussed but I thought that some might find this interesting.
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Tue 18 Jan 2022, 5:49 pm
Bill Randle and his involvement are definitely interesting.
I appreciate you reviewing the information Tom.

AFAIK I was the last researcher to contact Willie (Bill) Randle before he passed away.
He was going to run for political office again and I saw a opening to interview him in that regard.
I found his private cell phone number and called, he answered, but he was driving and wasn't too talkative.
He didn't want to answer any questions about that morning and cut call short after asking him about it. Seemed his past had just caught up with him and he was uncomfortable addressing it.
I was expecting a more polished politician type reply but got stonewall'd.

I do find the shifting investigation story interesting.

As an aside:
I assume the call Willie made and overheard by the Hotel Clerk and his resultant explanation is a plausible explanation for Linnie Mae's mistaken employment at TSBD... but here is Willie being included in the workforce by Schneider.... all simple misunderstandings of course. Wash rinse repeat.

(Who installed the counters for TSBD offices, lunch room and will call?) ...why was Willie having to do jobs in other cities... how did the company bid on such distant jobs and wouldn't they need to be low bidder? A non-local low bidder is possible but not economical advantageous.... add in travel, hotel room/s and meals for Willie and his worker.
Must've been a big payday for the counter guy.
(Clears throat)
Wish Willie had took my bait and talked about that job and drive that morning and his employee he picked up.
He took his secrets to the grave. Rather than his secrets putting him in one.

Mrs Roberts was the neighborhood gosip/informant. She told all while alive.
Hosty goes directly to Mrs Roberts for information on Oswald/Marina. No surprises there

Then there is that list of neighbors who don't see Lee Oswald going to Randle's for a lift or with any package that morning
Well of course they did not see Lee walking to Randle's or at all if Willie/Buell/Mrs.Roberts picked up Lee at the Paines as usual.
Question at that point to the neighbors should have included how they know Lee got to work and did they see Willie (Bill), Linnie or Buell that morning.... and what were they doing.

Schneider somehow, much like the Hotel Clerk overhearing Willie's call and in speaking to Willie, also "mistakes" the conversation to mean Linnie works/worked at TSBD.
I can appreciate the misinterpreted meaning of Willie's conversation with the clerk/Telephone call misunderstanding.... but TWICE we are led to a miscommunication about The Randle' involvement with TSBD. Now it's Bill who gets 'employed.'

Information Flows
1) Info to Schneider from Mrs Roberts from Willie Randle. Large package was carried and Willie also works at TSBD.
2) Info to Schneider from Mr Roberts from Willie.
Large package was carried and Willie also works at TSBD
3) Info to Schneider from Mrs Robert's.
Package is large enough to carry rifle, Willie drove Lee.
4) Neighbors did not see Lee that morning, nor him walking to Randle's with any package. (In essence calling bullshit on official story)
5) Fort Worth(?) Postal Inspectors find neighbor who gave ride to Lee and carried a package w/"curtain rods."
6) Fort Worth(?) Postal Inspectors interview Schneider and info from him directly was Mrs Roberts drove Lee with package large enough to carry rifle.
7) Fort Worth Postal Inspectors make correction to ASSISTANCE AFTER ASSASSINATION and stated:
Schneider info was via Mrs Roberts and she said Willie was whom drove Lee w/package large enough to contain a rifle.

So Secret Service via Postal Inspectors are informed of the curtain rod story via Schneider... WHAT IN THE HELL? Implications are immense.
Package morphs from a large package, to being able to transport a rifle to Rifle Sized.

I find Willie and Linnie Mae's both getting mistaken for being employed by TSBD are of astronomically high odds.... especially independently and from two different sources information.

The info (to Schneider) seemed to come from Willie about the package and ride.
But Willie supposedly had left already to pick up an employee and leave town to do a job ( must not be any counter shops in Austin)

Was it due to Bill's political aspersions and involvement he hears the rumor that JFK is to be murdered if he comes to Dallas and blabbed it where a hotel clerk overhears this intriguing one side of phone conversation and then their resulting exchanges between themselves.... yeah I'd call FBI too as Willie was full of excuses for his foreknowledge.
Bill sure wasn't forthcoming with details.
He clammed up.
Was that why he was politically successful he did his job and kept mum much like a mob hit man.... well after getting caught blabbing with Linnie Mae on the phone.

Willie.... Where's YOUR rider?
Cheers,
Ed
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Wed 19 Jan 2022, 7:14 am
Ed,

I found this Secret Service report, Form 1599 "Personal History of Prisoner", where Bill is the only person listed in "associates" and it says he took Oswald to and from work. More evidence for Bill borrowing the Paine station wagon? The report does not say "Willie" but "Wm", it's from Nov. 26th, and most of the other info in the report seems to have come from Oswald's interrogations:

Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 Ss_ran10Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 Ss_sig10

Did Oswald corroborate Schneider? One thing that gets me about all of this is the initial FBI 302 reports at the Austin Motel from the 23rd aren't actually prepared until a week later, even though the San Antonio Field Office sends that memo on the 23rd; the Secret Service doesn't allegedly interview Bill until the 28th, then writes him off saying he doesn't know Oswald, etc. And through all of this the Secret Service has information by Friday night that Bill drove Oswald to work, yet not a single report (that I've seen) reflects him being asked specifically where he was Friday morning.

I do think the curtain rod thing, since that teletype is from the Warren Commission, might just be the Commission mixing things up, but would have to look into it more. 

Tom
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Wed 19 Jan 2022, 1:55 pm
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10697#relPageId=6

Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 Image_13


Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 Randle%20Testimony%205

Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 Randle%20Testimony%206a

Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 Randle%20Testimony%206b


According to CE1799, the postal inspectors, including in particular Harry Holmes, interviewed a Mr. and Mrs. C. P. Schneider of Irving, Texas, in the neighborhood of the Paines and Randles, on November 22, 1963, at 6 pm. They said that Mrs. Ed Roberts, i.e. Dorothy Roberts, told them that "Willie Randle" had driven Oswald to work that morning.

What sort of investigation is it that receives hearsay evidence such as the above and fails to follow up to confirm or refute it with the parties involved? WE are indeed, expected to believe that no follow up was done, because there is no evidence any follow up was done. Yet, there is actually circumstantial evidence that the authorities did believe that Randle was the man who gave the lift because that same night, the FBI was attempting to trace the origins of the scope in the names of Lee Oswald OR Willie Randall [sic]. (CD 87) It is virtually impossible to believe that the FBI would act on hearsay alone, when a few houses from where the hearsay was received, lived the person who had passed on that hearsay. You would almost have to believe that this “Willie Randle” lead was followed up and that it checked out given the ease with which such a lead could be checked out. To further complicate matters, the DPD already had Oswald’s alleged driver in custody. If Frazier truly was the driver, there would no reason at all to be checking on “Willy Randle/Randall” as a co-conspirator!


Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 CE%201331





Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 CE%201331

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Wed 19 Jan 2022, 2:30 pm
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Thu 20 Jan 2022, 1:59 pm
Thanks Tom and Mick!
I had batted around idea Bill bought a scope.
For himself or Buell as a gift.

The timing Bill gave for airline flight was wildly off or wildly misinterpreted to 5pm for departure from Austin.
Hotel said he leaves at 11pm for airport.
Berry driving back in the am.

6pm Friday Roberts is dropping the dime on Willie.
7pm Friday Willie is JUST arriving at Austin and had to have left approximately 7am ... or trip duration of 12 hours?

I'm sure there was some loading up the truck at shop or other stops.... but Dallas to Austin is a 3hour tour/trip.
They could have worked all day in Irving or worked all day in Austin and then went to hotel of course.
But that didn't seem to be the story from Bill.

That's a good find Tom.
To AND from.
I haven't thought to look if Buell was ever absent from work and thusly Lee requires a ride from Bill, especially if Bill is doing a job in Dallas - why not.
Bill, in these documents, flip flops on knowing Lee.
Everyone naturally distances themselves from murderers.

On dates of preparation of fd302s etc they can be late arriving but nothing prevents agents from telephonically advising headquarters or SAIC of their results. This is often noted in other reports...just an example.

Aside.
Bill never offered to hire on Buell... Buell claimed he wanted to go to college and was tired of dead end jobs. So he moves to Dallas and doesn't take one class?
Says he needed a job first, and thus the need to go to an employment agency.
Buell says it was the one on Shadygrove... Massey.
Not Manning.
He has second thoughts on that.

Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 Scree594
Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 Scree595
Mick_Purdy
Mick_Purdy
Posts : 2275
Join date : 2013-07-26
Location : Melbourne Australia

Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 Empty Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Fri 21 Jan 2022, 9:34 am
I wonder if Benny Caster is still with us - he could clear up a lot of the details of Willies activities on the Friday.

Although judging from his FB page no entries after 2016.


https://www.facebook.com/benny.caster/photos

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Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 Byp_211
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Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B - Page 8 Empty Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

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