Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

First topic message reminder :

Alan

I asked before but got no response, so here goes again - is there any evidence that Buell came into money after the assassination? It has been raised before in situations like this that where someone who appears to be involved in a cover-up seems to come into a lot of money. Was there some carrot or was it all stick that is keeping him silent?

Item 2.
WC Notes

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19RcMB3SpO5AYRbJuRWK-C5ILPYyHMdze/view?usp=sharing

barto wrote:Item 2.
WC Notes

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19RcMB3SpO5AYRbJuRWK-C5ILPYyHMdze/view?usp=sharing

Thanks for posting Barto.

Frazier and his sister nailed Oswald. They knew exactly what they were doing. The question is Why? In my view there is nothing, zero - to support the idea that Frazier or his sister saw Oswald with a sack on the morning of the assassination large enough to carry a rifle.

Frazier still seems to be keeping quite a lot of secrets.

Vinny wrote:Frazier still seems to be keeping quite a lot of secrets.

Yep! And it would seem some were onto this way back. There is as near as I can tell no corroborating witnesses for the sack carrying Oswald that Friday morning. If there were they would've been paraded very publicly. No the Frazier's and the Randle's for mine are still a part of the puzzle.

"Givens said that during the past few days Lee had commented that he rode to work with a boy named Wesley."


There it is again. No wonder Givens yelled out asking where his rider was! Oswald had told him in recent days that he rode to work with Wes.

It is possible that Wes simply misunderstood or that Oswald never explained it was only one day a week, but I can only go by what I would have said - that is, I get a ride once a week and the other days I walk/catch a bus. I don't see the point in giving half an answer... 

What this also tells us is that Givens must not have noticed Wes arriving previous to Nov 22, which also seems a bit odd/convenient.

Agreed Mick. Looks like the stepfather visit was an excuse. I guess he wanted to avoid the police. Maybe Linnie came up with that idea.

Interview with Buell and his son.

https://www.stitcher.com/show/since-were-on-the-subject/episode/episode-54-the-wheel-man-driving-mr-oswald-with-buell-wesley-frazier-79629284

Linnie Mae - USSS
Thx to Malcolm Blunt
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1W65G8VkJXtSKeLRZSx3Ar0tPKk9WFmXI/view?usp=drivesdk

Thanks Bart, I've really only ever seen page 2 of this doc so thanks for posting. It now has some context. Cheers.

There is nothing in Linnie Mae's file folder at the Archives either, zip, zero, nada. Been emptied out by someone.

Mick_Purdy wrote:
If this is an accurate account of Frazier's stepfather then it's hard to imagine Buell racing off to visit the man in hospital immediately after the assassination. 

Hmmmm he hears they found a Enfield at the TSBD, shat himself, and ran to get some help from Dixie Mafia go between, his stepfather.
Just a wild stab...
Ed

Ed.Ledoux wrote:

Mick_Purdy wrote:
If this is an accurate account of Frazier's stepfather then it's hard to imagine Buell racing off to visit the man in hospital immediately after the assassination. 

Hmmmm he hears they found a Enfield at the TSBD, shat himself, and ran to get some help from Dixie Mafia go between, his stepfather.
Just a wild stab...
Ed

 Perhaps he was backup patsy in case Lee was not available.

A possibility Vinny!
Basement would not be kind to Buell ... neither TSBD or DPDs.
Lee being low man might be on Will Call duty during lunch, next in line is Buell if Lee was absent.

I've always thought that is what was meant by the Big Bosses comment:
He Wasn't Supposed To Leave The Building

Only reason I can fathom is Lee had to watch the Will Call counter.
Then that comment makes sense.

Otherwise it makes no sense as everyone employed was said to be able to go out to buy lunch, from a Roach Coach or to the sandwich shop nearby.

Ed.Ledoux wrote:

Mick_Purdy wrote:
If this is an accurate account of Frazier's stepfather then it's hard to imagine Buell racing off to visit the man in hospital immediately after the assassination. 

Hmmmm he hears they found a Enfield at the TSBD, shat himself, and ran to get some help from Dixie Mafia go between, his stepfather.
Just a wild stab...
Ed

Too right Ed,

So, Wes either dashes off to see "Pappy" immediately after the assassination because he's feeling all guilty an' all because Mumma can't get there because she can't drive,

or

He tears off to see "Pappy" for some Dixie Mafia lovin' - he needs help 'cause he's thinks he might be implicated in the murder of JFK for some reason.

#1 doesn't sit with me - never has.

YES, why not take Mum too ta see da ball buster.

Is this where Buell calls Linnie Mae and she gets the assistance of a Real Fatherly figure.

Just want to nail down the logistics

I know I'm new and behind the curve on this, by years, but I went through all of part A and part B of this thread and didn't see reference to the source document for CE 1799 and origin of the Willie Randle ride, the 12/4/63 report of Irving Postal Inspectors Niewoehner and McCoy:



Has WBF ever mentioned anything about having a conversation with Mrs. Roberts? Not that I know of but I haven't looked into this very much. Interesting detail is the information on Roberts' source, Willie Randle himself according to this report, was included in the first draft of CE 1799 then removed before submission to the Warren Commission:



Then here is the final draft which has been excerpted in this thread several times:



The final draft was submitted on 1/17/64, then on 1/22/64 the FBI interviewed Willie Randle - though the Secret Service had interviewed him on 11/28/63. As discussed earlier in the thread, Mrs. Roberts was allegedly present during the discussion of getting Oswald a job at the TSBD, which is an interesting wrinkle.

Also, Roberts supposedly told Schneider about the package, but did she recant to the FBI? This was also discussed already at some point in this thread I'm pretty sure but it's an interesting detail nonetheless:







There's also some interesting correspondence between the Commission and Postal Inspection Service from the day before the final draft of CE 1799 was submitted:




The first response was this:



Then they sent a correction:



Forgive me if I missed something and this has all already been discussed but I thought that some might find this interesting.

Bill Randle and his involvement are definitely interesting.
I appreciate you reviewing the information Tom.

AFAIK I was the last researcher to contact Willie (Bill) Randle before he passed away.
He was going to run for political office again and I saw a opening to interview him in that regard.
I found his private cell phone number and called, he answered, but he was driving and wasn't too talkative.
He didn't want to answer any questions about that morning and cut call short after asking him about it. Seemed his past had just caught up with him and he was uncomfortable addressing it.
I was expecting a more polished politician type reply but got stonewall'd.

I do find the shifting investigation story interesting.

As an aside:
I assume the call Willie made and overheard by the Hotel Clerk and his resultant explanation is a plausible explanation for Linnie Mae's mistaken employment at TSBD... but here is Willie being included in the workforce by Schneider.... all simple misunderstandings of course. Wash rinse repeat.

(Who installed the counters for TSBD offices, lunch room and will call?) ...why was Willie having to do jobs in other cities... how did the company bid on such distant jobs and wouldn't they need to be low bidder? A non-local low bidder is possible but not economical advantageous.... add in travel, hotel room/s and meals for Willie and his worker.
Must've been a big payday for the counter guy.
(Clears throat)
Wish Willie had took my bait and talked about that job and drive that morning and his employee he picked up.
He took his secrets to the grave. Rather than his secrets putting him in one.

Mrs Roberts was the neighborhood gosip/informant. She told all while alive.
Hosty goes directly to Mrs Roberts for information on Oswald/Marina. No surprises there

Then there is that list of neighbors who don't see Lee Oswald going to Randle's for a lift or with any package that morning
Well of course they did not see Lee walking to Randle's or at all if Willie/Buell/Mrs.Roberts picked up Lee at the Paines as usual.
Question at that point to the neighbors should have included how they know Lee got to work and did they see Willie (Bill), Linnie or Buell that morning.... and what were they doing.

Schneider somehow, much like the Hotel Clerk overhearing Willie's call and in speaking to Willie, also "mistakes" the conversation to mean Linnie works/worked at TSBD.
I can appreciate the misinterpreted meaning of Willie's conversation with the clerk/Telephone call misunderstanding.... but TWICE we are led to a miscommunication about The Randle' involvement with TSBD. Now it's Bill who gets 'employed.'

Information Flows
1) Info to Schneider from Mrs Roberts from Willie Randle. Large package was carried and Willie also works at TSBD.
2) Info to Schneider from Mr Roberts from Willie.
Large package was carried and Willie also works at TSBD
3) Info to Schneider from Mrs Robert's.
Package is large enough to carry rifle, Willie drove Lee.
4) Neighbors did not see Lee that morning, nor him walking to Randle's with any package. (In essence calling bullshit on official story)
5) Fort Worth(?) Postal Inspectors find neighbor who gave ride to Lee and carried a package w/"curtain rods."
6) Fort Worth(?) Postal Inspectors interview Schneider and info from him directly was Mrs Roberts drove Lee with package large enough to carry rifle.
7) Fort Worth Postal Inspectors make correction to ASSISTANCE AFTER ASSASSINATION and stated:
Schneider info was via Mrs Roberts and she said Willie was whom drove Lee w/package large enough to contain a rifle.

So Secret Service via Postal Inspectors are informed of the curtain rod story via Schneider... WHAT IN THE HELL? Implications are immense.
Package morphs from a large package, to being able to transport a rifle to Rifle Sized.

I find Willie and Linnie Mae's both getting mistaken for being employed by TSBD are of astronomically high odds.... especially independently and from two different sources information.

The info (to Schneider) seemed to come from Willie about the package and ride.
But Willie supposedly had left already to pick up an employee and leave town to do a job ( must not be any counter shops in Austin)

Was it due to Bill's political aspersions and involvement he hears the rumor that JFK is to be murdered if he comes to Dallas and blabbed it where a hotel clerk overhears this intriguing one side of phone conversation and then their resulting exchanges between themselves.... yeah I'd call FBI too as Willie was full of excuses for his foreknowledge.
Bill sure wasn't forthcoming with details.
He clammed up.
Was that why he was politically successful he did his job and kept mum much like a mob hit man.... well after getting caught blabbing with Linnie Mae on the phone.

Willie.... Where's YOUR rider?
Cheers,
Ed

Ed,

I found this Secret Service report, Form 1599 "Personal History of Prisoner", where Bill is the only person listed in "associates" and it says he took Oswald to and from work. More evidence for Bill borrowing the Paine station wagon? The report does not say "Willie" but "Wm", it's from Nov. 26th, and most of the other info in the report seems to have come from Oswald's interrogations:



Did Oswald corroborate Schneider? One thing that gets me about all of this is the initial FBI 302 reports at the Austin Motel from the 23rd aren't actually prepared until a week later, even though the San Antonio Field Office sends that memo on the 23rd; the Secret Service doesn't allegedly interview Bill until the 28th, then writes him off saying he doesn't know Oswald, etc. And through all of this the Secret Service has information by Friday night that Bill drove Oswald to work, yet not a single report (that I've seen) reflects him being asked specifically where he was Friday morning.

I do think the curtain rod thing, since that teletype is from the Warren Commission, might just be the Commission mixing things up, but would have to look into it more. 

Tom

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10697#relPageId=6











According to CE1799, the postal inspectors, including in particular Harry Holmes, interviewed a Mr. and Mrs. C. P. Schneider of Irving, Texas, in the neighborhood of the Paines and Randles, on November 22, 1963, at 6 pm. They said that Mrs. Ed Roberts, i.e. Dorothy Roberts, told them that "Willie Randle" had driven Oswald to work that morning.

What sort of investigation is it that receives hearsay evidence such as the above and fails to follow up to confirm or refute it with the parties involved? WE are indeed, expected to believe that no follow up was done, because there is no evidence any follow up was done. Yet, there is actually circumstantial evidence that the authorities did believe that Randle was the man who gave the lift because that same night, the FBI was attempting to trace the origins of the scope in the names of Lee Oswald OR Willie Randall [sic]. (CD 87) It is virtually impossible to believe that the FBI would act on hearsay alone, when a few houses from where the hearsay was received, lived the person who had passed on that hearsay. You would almost have to believe that this “Willie Randle” lead was followed up and that it checked out given the ease with which such a lead could be checked out. To further complicate matters, the DPD already had Oswald’s alleged driver in custody. If Frazier truly was the driver, there would no reason at all to be checking on “Willy Randle/Randall” as a co-conspirator!

Thanks Tom and Mick!
I had batted around idea Bill bought a scope.
For himself or Buell as a gift.

The timing Bill gave for airline flight was wildly off or wildly misinterpreted to 5pm for departure from Austin.
Hotel said he leaves at 11pm for airport.
Berry driving back in the am.

6pm Friday Roberts is dropping the dime on Willie.
7pm Friday Willie is JUST arriving at Austin and had to have left approximately 7am ... or trip duration of 12 hours?

I'm sure there was some loading up the truck at shop or other stops.... but Dallas to Austin is a 3hour tour/trip.
They could have worked all day in Irving or worked all day in Austin and then went to hotel of course.
But that didn't seem to be the story from Bill.

That's a good find Tom.
To AND from.
I haven't thought to look if Buell was ever absent from work and thusly Lee requires a ride from Bill, especially if Bill is doing a job in Dallas - why not.
Bill, in these documents, flip flops on knowing Lee.
Everyone naturally distances themselves from murderers.

On dates of preparation of fd302s etc they can be late arriving but nothing prevents agents from telephonically advising headquarters or SAIC of their results. This is often noted in other reports...just an example.

Aside.
Bill never offered to hire on Buell... Buell claimed he wanted to go to college and was tired of dead end jobs. So he moves to Dallas and doesn't take one class?
Says he needed a job first, and thus the need to go to an employment agency.
Buell says it was the one on Shadygrove... Massey.
Not Manning.
He has second thoughts on that.

I wonder if Benny Caster is still with us - he could clear up a lot of the details of Willies activities on the Friday.

Although judging from his FB page no entries after 2016.


https://www.facebook.com/benny.caster/photos