Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
+8
beowulf
Vinny
barto
greg_parker
Hasan Yusuf
Colin_Crow
dwdunn(akaDan)
Robert Charles-Dunne
12 posters
Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Fri 04 Sep 2009, 9:29 pm
First topic message reminder :
Professor Charles ("Chuck") Webster
Very little can be gleaned from the Warren Commission volumes about Charles Webster except that he had been at police head-quarters most of the day following the assassination; that he was a law professor at the Southern Methodist University (SMU); that he gave assurances to the DCLU delegation about Oswald's civil rights; that he had taken this delegation to Captain King for further assurances; that he may himself have been involved with the DCLU; and that he very likely attended a meeting with various officials regarding the upcoming arraignment. However, there is one document of no little interest in the HSCA subject files. It is a FBI memo regarding the American GI Forum and is dated June 20, 1960. This indicates that Bill Lowery had attended a meeting of a committee which had formed to support Webtser's run for Congress. The committee members were mainly CPUSA members or past members.[6] Lowery had been a founding member of the Dallas branch of the American GI Forum along with TSBD employee, Joe Molina. He had also been an FBI informant/infiltration agent since 1945. Another of those founding members was Felix Bartello (also an informant). Bartello was later to become a member of a Minutemen splinter group which had formed in support of Edwin Walker's efforts at Oxford. One of the other members, Ashland Burchwell, had been caught en-route to Mississippi with a car load of weapons.
In 1963, Lowery testified against a suspected communist named John Stafford before the Subversive Activities Control Board (SACB) in Washington. Stafford is also mentioned in the above document. The case drew headlines when RFK asked Texas state authorities to refrain from taking action on Stafford until the Feds were through with him. Further controversy arose when Lowery's status as informant was blown when, at the hearings, he admitted he had infiltrated the GI Forum and other reputable groups for the FBI. The FBI predictably denied he was acting for anyone other than the CPUSA - a lie exposed through the release of files.
As a sidebar, it may well be the Stafford case that gave Edwin Walker the idea to allege RFK had intervened in having Oswald released from police custody after being arrested for the Apr 10 so-called assassination attempt. Prof. Webster seems to have had a very cozy relationship with the Dallas DPD for someone of so pink a hue.
Grier & Louise Raggio timeline
1938: Louise Ballerstedt joins the American Friends Service Committee and spends that summer working in Galena, Illinois for the Society of Friends
1939: Louise graduates from the University of Texas and is awarded a Rockefeller Foundation grant for a one-year internship at the White House. Here, she meets the likes of Eleanor Roosevelt, befriends LBJ and dates John Connally. While in Washington, she also works for the National Youth Administration (NYA)
1940: Louise returns to Austin still with the NYA, working under Jake Pickle.[7] April 19, 1941: Grier Raggio and Louise Ballerstedt marry after a short courtship. Grier, a lawyer, is working for the Department of Agriculture investigating misuse of food stamps for purchase of alcohol and other illegal substances
December 7, 1941: Pearl Harbor is attacked by the Japanese resulting in the US entering WWII and Grier is drafted
March, 1942: Grier is sent to Pacific Theater after initially being sent to New Orleans to attend Officer's Training School for Intelligence where he is rejected on security grounds. He serves with the 386th Air Service Group. During the course of the war he would send letters home highly critical of the US army
August 6, 1942: First son Grier, Jr is born
September, 1945: Grier returns from the war and works for the Veteran's Administration Board
1946: Second son Tom is born
1947: At the insistence of Grier, Louise enrols in Southern Methodist University law School
1947: Third son Kenneth is born. Louise drops out of law school
1948: Grier is relieved of duties while answering 8 charges of "Un-American activities" including; being a member of the Communist Party; a member of the American Spanish Aid Committee; a member of the American Civil Rights Union; that he had advocated and praised the Russian system of government to co-workers and; that on another occasion had advocated the overthrow of the government by force. He and Louise travel to Washington where Grier appears before the Veterans Administrations Loyalty Board. He denies all charges except one - telling a fellow worker that “there is no difference between Stalin forcing Communism on the countries of Europe and the US forcing democracy on them”. This statement he asserts, had been taken out of context. He is cleared by the board and returns to work. Throughout this period and perhaps beyond, the Raggio's claim their phone is tapped and that they are under constant surveillance
1949: Louise and Grier join the Unitarian Church
1950: Louise returns to law school
1952: Louise graduates and does volunteer work for the League of Women Voters and the Women’s Alliance of the Unitarian Church while practicing law part-time from home. Meanwhile, Grier is again the focus of government interest in his activities
1953: Louise obtains a job as an assistant DA under Henry Wade through the help of friend and mentor, Judge Sarah T Hughes. Judge Hughes would, after the assassination of JFK, administer the oath of office to LBJ
March 1, 1954: Grier is guest speaker at a meeting of the Peace and World Relations Group of the Temple Emanu-El Sisterhood. His subject is, "Are We in Danger of Losing Our Civil Rights and Liberties?"
1955: Grier Raggio opens a law office in the Rio Grande Building in Dallas [8]
April, 1956: Louise quits DA's office to join her husband's law practice. Firm is now known as Raggio & Raggio and specializes in divorce cases
1957: Louise's former employer, Jake Pickle, becomes director of the Texas State Democratic Executive Committee. Holds that position until 1960
1960: Louise serves on the newly organized Family Law Section of the State Bar
1961: Jake Pickle becomes a member of the Texas Employment Commission
1961: Sarah Hughes becomes a Federal District Judge
January 27, 1963: Grier debates Wyatt W Lipscomb, city attorney in Garland for the Soroptimist Club of Dallas at the Baker Hotel. Subject of debate is "Does Membership in the United Nations Serve the Best interests of the United States?" Louise is a club member
November 13, 1963: Ruth Paine files a petition for divorce stating she separated from Michael on September 1, 1962, and that for 6 months prior to
separation, she had suffered a course of "unkind, cruel harsh and tyrannical treatment and conduct" at the hands of her husband. Ruth's attorney in this filing was Louise Raggio.[9] Recall that the Paine's and Raggio's attend the same church
November 22, 1963 Morning: Grier and Louise are at the Trade Mart for the luncheon [10]
November 22, 1963 Evening: Grier gets a call either from an ACLU member in Austin (according Greg Olds) or from Washington (according to Louise) concerning either finding out if Oswald was being denied counsel (according to Olds) or asking that he witness Oswald's arraignment (according to Louise). Grier phones Olds about this. In turn, Olds phones police, then calls Grier back. Grier suggests they go down and check out the situation
November 22, 1963, 11:15 PM: Olds, Raggio and 2 other DCLU members meet across from City Hall at Plaza Hotel, then try to talk to Earl Cabell without success before speaking with Prof. Charles Webster outside the office of Captain Fritz
November 22, 1963, 11:40 PM: Webster takes delegation to Captain King
November 22, 1963, 11:50 PM: According to Wade, Grier Raggio and Charles Webster are both at a meeting just prior to the midnight press conference regarding the arraignment in the JFK case. David Johnston however, only named himself, Curry, Fritz, Wade and 2 or 3 assistant DAs as being present
Midnight: According to Olds, the others in the delegation go home at the time he goes down to watch the press conference [11]
1970: Grier and Louise's eldest son, Grier, Jr starts up a journal called "The New Democrat" which he edits with Stephen Schlesinger, son of JFK aide and historian, Arthur
October 26, 1970: Conservative journalist, John Chamberlain writes widely published article, "Where else Can Democrats Go?" predicts that Raggio (whom Chamberlain describes as a Mayor John Lindsay functionary) and Schlesinger are "sewing the dragon's teeth" through their support of McGovern which he states will lead to problems at the '72 convention unless the Left gets its way
1972: Gary Allen, a John Birch Society propagandist and author of "None Dare Call it Conspiracy" publishes "Richard Nixon: The Man Behind the Mask" which quotes from the Chamberlain article, suggesting that Nixon and some of the Left in the Democratic Party are "part of the same conspiracy".
According to Allen, the Left, with Raggio and chlesinger playing prominent roles, will split the party, ensuring an easy win for Nixon
guns & money
There are two other people named Raggio who turn up in the records. Any connection to Grier Raggio is unknown, and they are mentioned here only for the benefit of anyone who might have an interest in genealogy. The first is David L Raggio originally of Natchitoches, Louisiana. He was a WWII veteran who served with the 879th Airborne Engineers.
Raggio, in 1963 and by now a geologist, entered into a partnership with Richard Davis and Gus de la Barre. The business which resulted was known as the Guatemalan Lumber & Mineral Corp. In actuality however, it was a front for training Cuban exiles at camps in the area around Lake Pontchartrain.
The second is William Raggio. As Washoe County District Attorney and friend of Frank Sinatra, he was heavily involved in the investigation into the December 8, 1963 kidnapping of Sinatra's son, Frank Jr. In March, 1968, New Orleans played host to the National Convention of District Attorneys. An awards banquet was planned as part of the convention with Hubert Humphrey originally slated as guest speaker. When Humphrey withdrew after hearing how Garrison was criticizing LBJ over various aspects of the Shaw case, as well as the original investigation of the assassination, Garrison placed himself into the guest speaker role.
The organizing committee, fretting over what Garrison might say, requested a meeting with him. The meeting culminated in barbed exchanges between Garrison and Raggio - who had attempted to warn Garrison to leave out any mention of the assassination in his speech. Garrison reacted by cancelling the banquet and shipping all the catered food to an orphanage.
In 1970, Richard Nixon hatched plans to recapture a hostile senate for the Republicans at the Nov 3rd elections. To this end, he hand-picked 9 candidates. Among them was William Raggio. Raggio failed in his bid.
In 1972, he did win a seat in the Nevada state senate, and has held it ever since.
ENDNOTES
[1] Commission Exhibit 987 is a letter from Greg Olds to J Lee Rankin. It is on DCLU letterhead which lists all board members and other office holders within the organization.
[2] Also according to Louise Raggio, her husband had called Olds at the insistence of someone from the Washington Office - not Austin.
[3] Commission Document 87, p 549
[4] Treasure-Hunting in the National Archives, The Third Decade, vol 2, # 2 by Sylvia Meagher, January 1986. The document cited by Meagher in the article is found in Commission Document 5, p 400
[5] The 1:35 Arraignment and the Rewriting of History, The Third Decade, vol 3, # 4 by Timothy Cwiek, May, 1987
[6] NARA Record Number: 124-90010-10040
[7] Pickle bio: 1938; United States Navy, served three and a half years; area director, National Youth Administration, 1938-1941; radio business; public relations executive; director of Texas state Democratic Executive Committee, 1957-1960; member of Texas Employment Commission, 1961-1963). He had also been a political aide to LBJ and in Nov 1963 was the Democratic Nominee in the 10th District run-off with Republican Jim Dobbs. He was hated by the liberal faction of his own party who had got Kennedy over the line in Texas in 1960. In fact, one of those Kennedy supporters, Jack Ritter appeared on TV, Nov 21 urging those who had previously supported him to now support Dobbs, indicating that Pickle was not an acceptable candidate for the Democrats, and had been "less than forthright" during debates. Kennedy was due in Austin after the Dallas visit.
[8] The 112th MIG also had an office in the Rio Grande Building, as did the Immigration & Naturalization Service. The latter was listed in Oswald's address book
[9] Warren Commission Document 849, p33. As no further action was taken within 6 months of filing, the case was automatically dismissed
[10] November 22 - The Day Remembered by Morning News Staff, Dallas, p136
[11] Unless otherwise stated, background information on Louise and Grier Raggio has been sourced from the roster of the 386th Air Service Group; Louise Raggio's autobiography, Texas Tornado; Louise Raggio profile from the Texas State Bar; article published by the Texas Women Lawyers Association, "Louise B Raggio: Handing the Torch to Today's Generation" and; The Dallas Morning News archives
Professor Charles ("Chuck") Webster
Very little can be gleaned from the Warren Commission volumes about Charles Webster except that he had been at police head-quarters most of the day following the assassination; that he was a law professor at the Southern Methodist University (SMU); that he gave assurances to the DCLU delegation about Oswald's civil rights; that he had taken this delegation to Captain King for further assurances; that he may himself have been involved with the DCLU; and that he very likely attended a meeting with various officials regarding the upcoming arraignment. However, there is one document of no little interest in the HSCA subject files. It is a FBI memo regarding the American GI Forum and is dated June 20, 1960. This indicates that Bill Lowery had attended a meeting of a committee which had formed to support Webtser's run for Congress. The committee members were mainly CPUSA members or past members.[6] Lowery had been a founding member of the Dallas branch of the American GI Forum along with TSBD employee, Joe Molina. He had also been an FBI informant/infiltration agent since 1945. Another of those founding members was Felix Bartello (also an informant). Bartello was later to become a member of a Minutemen splinter group which had formed in support of Edwin Walker's efforts at Oxford. One of the other members, Ashland Burchwell, had been caught en-route to Mississippi with a car load of weapons.
In 1963, Lowery testified against a suspected communist named John Stafford before the Subversive Activities Control Board (SACB) in Washington. Stafford is also mentioned in the above document. The case drew headlines when RFK asked Texas state authorities to refrain from taking action on Stafford until the Feds were through with him. Further controversy arose when Lowery's status as informant was blown when, at the hearings, he admitted he had infiltrated the GI Forum and other reputable groups for the FBI. The FBI predictably denied he was acting for anyone other than the CPUSA - a lie exposed through the release of files.
As a sidebar, it may well be the Stafford case that gave Edwin Walker the idea to allege RFK had intervened in having Oswald released from police custody after being arrested for the Apr 10 so-called assassination attempt. Prof. Webster seems to have had a very cozy relationship with the Dallas DPD for someone of so pink a hue.
Grier & Louise Raggio timeline
1938: Louise Ballerstedt joins the American Friends Service Committee and spends that summer working in Galena, Illinois for the Society of Friends
1939: Louise graduates from the University of Texas and is awarded a Rockefeller Foundation grant for a one-year internship at the White House. Here, she meets the likes of Eleanor Roosevelt, befriends LBJ and dates John Connally. While in Washington, she also works for the National Youth Administration (NYA)
1940: Louise returns to Austin still with the NYA, working under Jake Pickle.[7] April 19, 1941: Grier Raggio and Louise Ballerstedt marry after a short courtship. Grier, a lawyer, is working for the Department of Agriculture investigating misuse of food stamps for purchase of alcohol and other illegal substances
December 7, 1941: Pearl Harbor is attacked by the Japanese resulting in the US entering WWII and Grier is drafted
March, 1942: Grier is sent to Pacific Theater after initially being sent to New Orleans to attend Officer's Training School for Intelligence where he is rejected on security grounds. He serves with the 386th Air Service Group. During the course of the war he would send letters home highly critical of the US army
August 6, 1942: First son Grier, Jr is born
September, 1945: Grier returns from the war and works for the Veteran's Administration Board
1946: Second son Tom is born
1947: At the insistence of Grier, Louise enrols in Southern Methodist University law School
1947: Third son Kenneth is born. Louise drops out of law school
1948: Grier is relieved of duties while answering 8 charges of "Un-American activities" including; being a member of the Communist Party; a member of the American Spanish Aid Committee; a member of the American Civil Rights Union; that he had advocated and praised the Russian system of government to co-workers and; that on another occasion had advocated the overthrow of the government by force. He and Louise travel to Washington where Grier appears before the Veterans Administrations Loyalty Board. He denies all charges except one - telling a fellow worker that “there is no difference between Stalin forcing Communism on the countries of Europe and the US forcing democracy on them”. This statement he asserts, had been taken out of context. He is cleared by the board and returns to work. Throughout this period and perhaps beyond, the Raggio's claim their phone is tapped and that they are under constant surveillance
1949: Louise and Grier join the Unitarian Church
1950: Louise returns to law school
1952: Louise graduates and does volunteer work for the League of Women Voters and the Women’s Alliance of the Unitarian Church while practicing law part-time from home. Meanwhile, Grier is again the focus of government interest in his activities
1953: Louise obtains a job as an assistant DA under Henry Wade through the help of friend and mentor, Judge Sarah T Hughes. Judge Hughes would, after the assassination of JFK, administer the oath of office to LBJ
March 1, 1954: Grier is guest speaker at a meeting of the Peace and World Relations Group of the Temple Emanu-El Sisterhood. His subject is, "Are We in Danger of Losing Our Civil Rights and Liberties?"
1955: Grier Raggio opens a law office in the Rio Grande Building in Dallas [8]
April, 1956: Louise quits DA's office to join her husband's law practice. Firm is now known as Raggio & Raggio and specializes in divorce cases
1957: Louise's former employer, Jake Pickle, becomes director of the Texas State Democratic Executive Committee. Holds that position until 1960
1960: Louise serves on the newly organized Family Law Section of the State Bar
1961: Jake Pickle becomes a member of the Texas Employment Commission
1961: Sarah Hughes becomes a Federal District Judge
January 27, 1963: Grier debates Wyatt W Lipscomb, city attorney in Garland for the Soroptimist Club of Dallas at the Baker Hotel. Subject of debate is "Does Membership in the United Nations Serve the Best interests of the United States?" Louise is a club member
November 13, 1963: Ruth Paine files a petition for divorce stating she separated from Michael on September 1, 1962, and that for 6 months prior to
separation, she had suffered a course of "unkind, cruel harsh and tyrannical treatment and conduct" at the hands of her husband. Ruth's attorney in this filing was Louise Raggio.[9] Recall that the Paine's and Raggio's attend the same church
November 22, 1963 Morning: Grier and Louise are at the Trade Mart for the luncheon [10]
November 22, 1963 Evening: Grier gets a call either from an ACLU member in Austin (according Greg Olds) or from Washington (according to Louise) concerning either finding out if Oswald was being denied counsel (according to Olds) or asking that he witness Oswald's arraignment (according to Louise). Grier phones Olds about this. In turn, Olds phones police, then calls Grier back. Grier suggests they go down and check out the situation
November 22, 1963, 11:15 PM: Olds, Raggio and 2 other DCLU members meet across from City Hall at Plaza Hotel, then try to talk to Earl Cabell without success before speaking with Prof. Charles Webster outside the office of Captain Fritz
November 22, 1963, 11:40 PM: Webster takes delegation to Captain King
November 22, 1963, 11:50 PM: According to Wade, Grier Raggio and Charles Webster are both at a meeting just prior to the midnight press conference regarding the arraignment in the JFK case. David Johnston however, only named himself, Curry, Fritz, Wade and 2 or 3 assistant DAs as being present
Midnight: According to Olds, the others in the delegation go home at the time he goes down to watch the press conference [11]
1970: Grier and Louise's eldest son, Grier, Jr starts up a journal called "The New Democrat" which he edits with Stephen Schlesinger, son of JFK aide and historian, Arthur
October 26, 1970: Conservative journalist, John Chamberlain writes widely published article, "Where else Can Democrats Go?" predicts that Raggio (whom Chamberlain describes as a Mayor John Lindsay functionary) and Schlesinger are "sewing the dragon's teeth" through their support of McGovern which he states will lead to problems at the '72 convention unless the Left gets its way
1972: Gary Allen, a John Birch Society propagandist and author of "None Dare Call it Conspiracy" publishes "Richard Nixon: The Man Behind the Mask" which quotes from the Chamberlain article, suggesting that Nixon and some of the Left in the Democratic Party are "part of the same conspiracy".
According to Allen, the Left, with Raggio and chlesinger playing prominent roles, will split the party, ensuring an easy win for Nixon
guns & money
There are two other people named Raggio who turn up in the records. Any connection to Grier Raggio is unknown, and they are mentioned here only for the benefit of anyone who might have an interest in genealogy. The first is David L Raggio originally of Natchitoches, Louisiana. He was a WWII veteran who served with the 879th Airborne Engineers.
Raggio, in 1963 and by now a geologist, entered into a partnership with Richard Davis and Gus de la Barre. The business which resulted was known as the Guatemalan Lumber & Mineral Corp. In actuality however, it was a front for training Cuban exiles at camps in the area around Lake Pontchartrain.
The second is William Raggio. As Washoe County District Attorney and friend of Frank Sinatra, he was heavily involved in the investigation into the December 8, 1963 kidnapping of Sinatra's son, Frank Jr. In March, 1968, New Orleans played host to the National Convention of District Attorneys. An awards banquet was planned as part of the convention with Hubert Humphrey originally slated as guest speaker. When Humphrey withdrew after hearing how Garrison was criticizing LBJ over various aspects of the Shaw case, as well as the original investigation of the assassination, Garrison placed himself into the guest speaker role.
The organizing committee, fretting over what Garrison might say, requested a meeting with him. The meeting culminated in barbed exchanges between Garrison and Raggio - who had attempted to warn Garrison to leave out any mention of the assassination in his speech. Garrison reacted by cancelling the banquet and shipping all the catered food to an orphanage.
In 1970, Richard Nixon hatched plans to recapture a hostile senate for the Republicans at the Nov 3rd elections. To this end, he hand-picked 9 candidates. Among them was William Raggio. Raggio failed in his bid.
In 1972, he did win a seat in the Nevada state senate, and has held it ever since.
ENDNOTES
[1] Commission Exhibit 987 is a letter from Greg Olds to J Lee Rankin. It is on DCLU letterhead which lists all board members and other office holders within the organization.
[2] Also according to Louise Raggio, her husband had called Olds at the insistence of someone from the Washington Office - not Austin.
[3] Commission Document 87, p 549
[4] Treasure-Hunting in the National Archives, The Third Decade, vol 2, # 2 by Sylvia Meagher, January 1986. The document cited by Meagher in the article is found in Commission Document 5, p 400
[5] The 1:35 Arraignment and the Rewriting of History, The Third Decade, vol 3, # 4 by Timothy Cwiek, May, 1987
[6] NARA Record Number: 124-90010-10040
[7] Pickle bio: 1938; United States Navy, served three and a half years; area director, National Youth Administration, 1938-1941; radio business; public relations executive; director of Texas state Democratic Executive Committee, 1957-1960; member of Texas Employment Commission, 1961-1963). He had also been a political aide to LBJ and in Nov 1963 was the Democratic Nominee in the 10th District run-off with Republican Jim Dobbs. He was hated by the liberal faction of his own party who had got Kennedy over the line in Texas in 1960. In fact, one of those Kennedy supporters, Jack Ritter appeared on TV, Nov 21 urging those who had previously supported him to now support Dobbs, indicating that Pickle was not an acceptable candidate for the Democrats, and had been "less than forthright" during debates. Kennedy was due in Austin after the Dallas visit.
[8] The 112th MIG also had an office in the Rio Grande Building, as did the Immigration & Naturalization Service. The latter was listed in Oswald's address book
[9] Warren Commission Document 849, p33. As no further action was taken within 6 months of filing, the case was automatically dismissed
[10] November 22 - The Day Remembered by Morning News Staff, Dallas, p136
[11] Unless otherwise stated, background information on Louise and Grier Raggio has been sourced from the roster of the 386th Air Service Group; Louise Raggio's autobiography, Texas Tornado; Louise Raggio profile from the Texas State Bar; article published by the Texas Women Lawyers Association, "Louise B Raggio: Handing the Torch to Today's Generation" and; The Dallas Morning News archives
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Mon 17 Jul 2017, 2:18 am
As of November 1963, Abt's "short and simple" unsuccessful defense of Lightfoot had not yet been overturned, so if going to trial was a possibility (i.e. the Ruby "solution" didn't work out for some reason) perhaps hooking Oswald up with an attorney who, at that point, had already struck out defending somebody who had been accused of being part of a non-approved group was the way to go for the Thin Blue Line crowd? Just tell Oswald they got this big city slicker guy who's hot shit and for him to not worry about any other lawyers. Everything's OK. Oswald buys it, then they drag their feet (phone calls don't get through), Sunday rolls around *BOOM!* Well damn the good bad luck. Oh well, I guess the dirty commie bastard won't be needing a lawyer now.
- Ed.Ledoux
- Posts : 3361
Join date : 2012-01-04
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Mon 17 Jul 2017, 4:27 am
...noddin in agreement as Im reading it.
another protestations by Lee "They're taking me in because I lived in the Soviet Union." might fit in here. Usually its more popular cousin "Im just a patsy" follows to much greater appeal. Yet the former shows, as he is being taken in, that somehow he already is being called/labeled/asked about being a commie or past addresses
another protestations by Lee "They're taking me in because I lived in the Soviet Union." might fit in here. Usually its more popular cousin "Im just a patsy" follows to much greater appeal. Yet the former shows, as he is being taken in, that somehow he already is being called/labeled/asked about being a commie or past addresses
- Ed.Ledoux
- Posts : 3361
Join date : 2012-01-04
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Mon 17 Jul 2017, 4:42 am
Stan you read my mind.
Somehow the bottom half of my reply did not upload... I asked if the slip of paper would of been from Chuck and how would he know or get the unpublished digits.
Has the slip been posted here?
As Chuck would be my choice too for knowing case law.
its also important that Abt struck out,
and Lightfoot had to get ACLU to bat cleanup.
Who other than Curry's friend Chuck would be allowed to give notes to prisoners?
perhaps Grover Proctor has provided a solution to it, but I have a doubt.
Being from an operator, literally, I do not see how Lee would be given the digits by the operator to write down. Operator would place a call to the unpub, and if Abt answered and agreed to speak they would be connected.
and if I lost Lightfoot I'd be unpublished too.
Somehow the bottom half of my reply did not upload... I asked if the slip of paper would of been from Chuck and how would he know or get the unpublished digits.
Has the slip been posted here?
As Chuck would be my choice too for knowing case law.
its also important that Abt struck out,
and Lightfoot had to get ACLU to bat cleanup.
Who other than Curry's friend Chuck would be allowed to give notes to prisoners?
perhaps Grover Proctor has provided a solution to it, but I have a doubt.
Being from an operator, literally, I do not see how Lee would be given the digits by the operator to write down. Operator would place a call to the unpub, and if Abt answered and agreed to speak they would be connected.
and if I lost Lightfoot I'd be unpublished too.
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Mon 17 Jul 2017, 9:24 am
Excellent! Agree with you both. As at Nov 22, 1963, Abt was an abject failure at defending lone commies in the only Smith Act case he tried.
_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise.
Lachie Hulme
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
Me
"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." Don Jeffries
"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott
https://gregrparker.com
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Mon 17 Jul 2017, 9:26 am
We might note here too that Lee seems blissfully unaware of that fact. That would not be the case if had learned of the case (and Abt) himself. No. He only knows what Webster has told him.
_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise.
Lachie Hulme
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
Me
"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." Don Jeffries
"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott
https://gregrparker.com
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Mon 17 Jul 2017, 9:38 am
I don't have the background or depth of knowledge you guys have on this, but as I read from a 30,000 ft. level, the game plan, based on the success of the government case against Lightfoot at the time, might have been:
1) The Dallas Thin Blue Liners and their accomplices tell the world that Oswald is a commie, so by this very fact, he's guilty of everything they want to throw at him. And they got the evidence to prove it too, and if they don't, no worries, they'll manufacture it. The fucking case is cinched now! That's all the public needs to know. Believe it—or fear.
2) Oswald wants legal representation, so they dupe him into believing they got the perfect guy for him—none of these run-of-the-mill public lawyers, no sir. They give him the name of John J. Abt, a colossus from New York. Hell, if I was 24 in his situation, I probably would have gone for it too. It's really a stall tactic to keep lawyers away from him as he tries to connect with Abt, because for some reason, dammit, they can't connect with the distinguished attorney who blew the Lightfoot case. This buys them time to set up the Ruby thing. And even if they fuck that up, they got this loser Abt representing Oswald. As Randall Adams who was only three days away from being executed would have attested, the deck was stacked against Oswald. But Ruby fixed everything, bless his heart. Saved the taxpayers a long, messy trial.
To Ed's comment about the operator giving Oswald the numbers, I recall right up until the Ma Bell system was broken up in 1982, you could call the operator and get a long distance number easily and even have her dial it for you. You paid the necessary charges of course, either applied to your phone bill, or if you were calling from a phone booth (something I did a lot when I was in the Navy in the 1970s), you would just enter the correct amount of change in the phone to proceed. The point is I think Ed is correct in if Oswald was trying to reach Abt and he didn't have the number, the operator would have helped him get it and connect him. Even if he had the number, he could have gotten operator help if he asked.
1) The Dallas Thin Blue Liners and their accomplices tell the world that Oswald is a commie, so by this very fact, he's guilty of everything they want to throw at him. And they got the evidence to prove it too, and if they don't, no worries, they'll manufacture it. The fucking case is cinched now! That's all the public needs to know. Believe it—or fear.
2) Oswald wants legal representation, so they dupe him into believing they got the perfect guy for him—none of these run-of-the-mill public lawyers, no sir. They give him the name of John J. Abt, a colossus from New York. Hell, if I was 24 in his situation, I probably would have gone for it too. It's really a stall tactic to keep lawyers away from him as he tries to connect with Abt, because for some reason, dammit, they can't connect with the distinguished attorney who blew the Lightfoot case. This buys them time to set up the Ruby thing. And even if they fuck that up, they got this loser Abt representing Oswald. As Randall Adams who was only three days away from being executed would have attested, the deck was stacked against Oswald. But Ruby fixed everything, bless his heart. Saved the taxpayers a long, messy trial.
To Ed's comment about the operator giving Oswald the numbers, I recall right up until the Ma Bell system was broken up in 1982, you could call the operator and get a long distance number easily and even have her dial it for you. You paid the necessary charges of course, either applied to your phone bill, or if you were calling from a phone booth (something I did a lot when I was in the Navy in the 1970s), you would just enter the correct amount of change in the phone to proceed. The point is I think Ed is correct in if Oswald was trying to reach Abt and he didn't have the number, the operator would have helped him get it and connect him. Even if he had the number, he could have gotten operator help if he asked.
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Mon 17 Jul 2017, 10:09 am
That's about it, Stan. This was thinking on the fly after he survived his arrest.
_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise.
Lachie Hulme
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
Me
"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." Don Jeffries
"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott
https://gregrparker.com
- Jake_Sykes
- Posts : 1100
Join date : 2016-08-15
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Mon 17 Jul 2017, 12:24 pm
Also consider that Oswald may have read this New York lawyer somehow sent from out of the blue as a life line flowing from his handlers and leaped at it.
_________________
Release clear scans. Reveal the truth about Prayer Man. Preserve the history of the assassination of JFK.
- GuestGuest
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Mon 17 Jul 2017, 5:33 pm
The idea of a hiring a lawyer is to have an intermediate handle the legal processes. Oswald was deliberately contained and isolated. His access to representation was thwarted by the DPD.
Asking for Abt buys time but Oswald was already on borrowed time. Ruby came to collect.
They had nothing on him other than the bullshit they ran with. That bullshit became official in 1964. 10 months after Oswald was shot. It took them almost a year to cinch the case. They buried Oswald that day with 26 volumes of dirt piled on top of him.
Oswald may have had a good alibi but he wasn't going to be around to use it. I think he may have felt he could save his hide but that never happened.
What annoys me most about the PM naysayers who also believe Oswald was framed is their reluctance to admit that Oswald had a good alibi. He was out front with Shelley.
Asking for Abt buys time but Oswald was already on borrowed time. Ruby came to collect.
They had nothing on him other than the bullshit they ran with. That bullshit became official in 1964. 10 months after Oswald was shot. It took them almost a year to cinch the case. They buried Oswald that day with 26 volumes of dirt piled on top of him.
Oswald may have had a good alibi but he wasn't going to be around to use it. I think he may have felt he could save his hide but that never happened.
What annoys me most about the PM naysayers who also believe Oswald was framed is their reluctance to admit that Oswald had a good alibi. He was out front with Shelley.
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Mon 17 Jul 2017, 6:29 pm
Paul Francisco Paso wrote:What annoys me most about the PM naysayers who also believe Oswald was framed is their reluctance to admit that Oswald had a good alibi. He was out front with Shelley.
Oswald never said anything to the contrary, did he. So that blows the piss poor "He did it for the notoriety" argument out the window because when asked, he said he didn't kill anybody.
Jesse Curry admitted in 1969 that "we don't have any proof he fired the rifle. No one has been able to positively put him in that building with a gun in his hand."
ALL of the first day evidence places him down in front, which supports his alibi. Period.
Anybody with a brain can see that the Warren Commission Report is a whitewashed piece of shit. Anybody with a functioning brain finds the elimination of Oswald, at best, highly suspicious.
The naysayers remind me of this old Saturday Night Live skit, "Ask Big Daddy," where Ugandan citizens call in and ask Idi Amin what happened to certain family members or people they know who have disappeared. In each case, Idi Amin (Garrett Morris) says they died in an unfortunate vehicle crash. The citizen callers accept his explanations with gratitude and thanks, and tell him he's doing a great job.
http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/ask-big-daddy/3004320?snl=1
The naysayers are either cognitively impaired or they are on someone's payroll to keep the Disinformation Meter up at a high level. Or they sniff paint.
- Ed.Ledoux
- Posts : 3361
Join date : 2012-01-04
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Mon 17 Jul 2017, 7:18 pm
Never rule out the paint sniffs.
Sorry if Greg or anyone had posted about the founder of the ACLU and founding member of the DCLU
Brannin.
There may be something you might not have connected...
https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/fbrbn
During a three-month trip to Mexico in 1922 Brannin began what became a long-time association with the Federated Press, a labor news service. In the San Francisco area he worked for a while as assistant editor of Labor Unity. In 1925 the Brannins toured Europe and the Soviet Union, making contact with radicals wherever they went. Afterwards the couple returned once more to Seattle, where Brannin became director of Seattle Labor College. In 1933 they moved with their adopted son, Robert, to Dallas. There they continued for the next several decades to involve themselves on a grass-roots level with causes and politics. They joined the Socialist party, and in 1936 Brannin was the party's unsuccessful nominee for governor. He became state secretary of the party and was involved especially in efforts to organize labor. In 1938 he resigned this post; thereafter the Brannins aligned themselves with the liberal side of the Democratic party in Texas.
The Brannins joined the First Unitarian Church in Dallas in 1947. During the 1950s and 1960s their attention turned more and more to the civil rights movement. Brannin became a member of the executive committee of the local National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. The couple participated in efforts in Dallas to desegregate various facilities, often joining picket lines when they were in their seventies.
Sorry if Greg or anyone had posted about the founder of the ACLU and founding member of the DCLU
Brannin.
There may be something you might not have connected...
https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/fbrbn
During a three-month trip to Mexico in 1922 Brannin began what became a long-time association with the Federated Press, a labor news service. In the San Francisco area he worked for a while as assistant editor of Labor Unity. In 1925 the Brannins toured Europe and the Soviet Union, making contact with radicals wherever they went. Afterwards the couple returned once more to Seattle, where Brannin became director of Seattle Labor College. In 1933 they moved with their adopted son, Robert, to Dallas. There they continued for the next several decades to involve themselves on a grass-roots level with causes and politics. They joined the Socialist party, and in 1936 Brannin was the party's unsuccessful nominee for governor. He became state secretary of the party and was involved especially in efforts to organize labor. In 1938 he resigned this post; thereafter the Brannins aligned themselves with the liberal side of the Democratic party in Texas.
The Brannins joined the First Unitarian Church in Dallas in 1947. During the 1950s and 1960s their attention turned more and more to the civil rights movement. Brannin became a member of the executive committee of the local National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. The couple participated in efforts in Dallas to desegregate various facilities, often joining picket lines when they were in their seventies.
- Ed.Ledoux
- Posts : 3361
Join date : 2012-01-04
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Mon 17 Jul 2017, 8:59 pm
arrest hinges on Fennell disclosing his name.
sound familiar... anyone... anyone?
Besig of ACLU argues this.
sound familiar... anyone... anyone?
Besig of ACLU argues this.
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Mon 17 Jul 2017, 9:42 pm
- Ed.Ledoux
- Posts : 3361
Join date : 2012-01-04
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Mon 17 Jul 2017, 10:29 pm
Nice work Bart,
Side Notes:
So would lee let the FPCC lawyer represent him??? fuck no.
is that the same though for ACLU?
"Oswald hated the ACLU just as he hated the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. " COUP DE TAT IN AMERICA
Attorney Ed Buck told a remarkable story about his run-in with "a tall slender man"about 6'2", 160 pounds" at Luby's Cafeteria, and how the unknown man mentioned his friendship with Lee Oswald. The man also told Buck that he used to work with books before he went to work at Bell Helicopter.
The FBI Albequerque office concluded that the unknown man could only be Michael Paine. [xi] Paine was interviewed and agreed that it was probably him. Robert Gemberling, a prominent FBI investigator of Oswald, omitted from his reports Buck's perfect physical description of Paine. [xii]
Michael is described as looking like Oswald in 1963 -- Paine had a similar slender frame as Oswald, but quite a bit taller, 35 years old, standing 6'2 and weighing 160
Abe Fortas' life can be divided into five chapters: youth, Yale, the bureaucracy, private law practice, the Court. At Yale he met William O. Douglas and has followed him in some fashion ever since. After graduating from law school Fortas taught at Yale under Douglas, with whom he also worked in the Securities and Exchange Commission in Washington; these academic and bureaucratic activities overlapped. Prior to working part time with the SEC, young Fortas, while still teaching at Yale was, in 1933-1934, Assistant Chief of the Legal Division of the Agricultural Adjustment Administration (AAA). Alger Hiss, the convicted Communist, was a lawyer with the AAA in 1934. Indeed, Hiss was "an Assistant General Counsel", as he proudly told the House Committee when Whittaker Chambers first called the turn on him in 1948. Assistant General Counsel sounds pretty good. Lee Pressman, another convicted Communist was one too, at the same time, in the same agency--AAA. Abe Fortas at this time was AAA's Assistant Chief of the Legal Di-vision. These are brilliant men. They wouldn't be likely to miss each other at that level in that agency. It's interesting the way Chambers describes the subterranean political atmosphere of those days. In Witness he writes:
I can imagine no better way to convey the secret power of the Communist Party in the domestic policies of the United States Government from 1933 to 1943, and later, than to list the mem
Side Notes:
So would lee let the FPCC lawyer represent him??? fuck no.
is that the same though for ACLU?
"Oswald hated the ACLU just as he hated the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. " COUP DE TAT IN AMERICA
Attorney Ed Buck told a remarkable story about his run-in with "a tall slender man"about 6'2", 160 pounds" at Luby's Cafeteria, and how the unknown man mentioned his friendship with Lee Oswald. The man also told Buck that he used to work with books before he went to work at Bell Helicopter.
The FBI Albequerque office concluded that the unknown man could only be Michael Paine. [xi] Paine was interviewed and agreed that it was probably him. Robert Gemberling, a prominent FBI investigator of Oswald, omitted from his reports Buck's perfect physical description of Paine. [xii]
Michael is described as looking like Oswald in 1963 -- Paine had a similar slender frame as Oswald, but quite a bit taller, 35 years old, standing 6'2 and weighing 160
Abe Fortas' life can be divided into five chapters: youth, Yale, the bureaucracy, private law practice, the Court. At Yale he met William O. Douglas and has followed him in some fashion ever since. After graduating from law school Fortas taught at Yale under Douglas, with whom he also worked in the Securities and Exchange Commission in Washington; these academic and bureaucratic activities overlapped. Prior to working part time with the SEC, young Fortas, while still teaching at Yale was, in 1933-1934, Assistant Chief of the Legal Division of the Agricultural Adjustment Administration (AAA). Alger Hiss, the convicted Communist, was a lawyer with the AAA in 1934. Indeed, Hiss was "an Assistant General Counsel", as he proudly told the House Committee when Whittaker Chambers first called the turn on him in 1948. Assistant General Counsel sounds pretty good. Lee Pressman, another convicted Communist was one too, at the same time, in the same agency--AAA. Abe Fortas at this time was AAA's Assistant Chief of the Legal Di-vision. These are brilliant men. They wouldn't be likely to miss each other at that level in that agency. It's interesting the way Chambers describes the subterranean political atmosphere of those days. In Witness he writes:
I can imagine no better way to convey the secret power of the Communist Party in the domestic policies of the United States Government from 1933 to 1943, and later, than to list the mem
- Ed.Ledoux
- Posts : 3361
Join date : 2012-01-04
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Mon 17 Jul 2017, 10:53 pm
members of the leading committee of the Ware Group [Chambers has previously gone into the workings of this "under-ground section of the American Communist Party", led by the late Harold Ware] and the posts that mark their progress through the Federal Government.
The leading committee of the Ware Group included:
Nathan Witt
August 1933 through February 1934--attorney on the staff of the AAA.
Lee Pressman
1933--Assistant General Counsel of the AAA.
John J. Abt
1933--Attorney for the AAA.
Charles Kramer alias "Krivitsky"
1933--On the staff of the AAA.
(pp. 343-344.)
Every one of them was a Communist. Chambers omits Hiss from the list. Hiss, like the others, was, in 1933-1934, a member of both the Ware Group of underground Communists and of the Agricultural Adjustment Administration. But his transfer to the staff on the Nye Committee of the Senate, investigating munitions-makers, was in prospect, and Chambers says the Party thought it prudent to separate Hiss from the group. But here in 1933-34, at the outset of the New Deal, are five AAA lawyers: Hiss, Pressman, Witt, Abt, and Kramer, all known to be Communists, and the Assistant Chief of the AAA Legal Division is Abe Fortas, who is not known to be a Communist. It is no wonder the justice is scrupulous in avoiding imputations of guilt by association! John Abt is the one Lee Harvey Oswald said he wanted for his lawyer. One wonders what chance Oswald had of retaining him, though it might have been a problem for Abt to turn him down. The problem never came to a head. Jack Ruby saw to that. The reason Oswald wanted Abt is brought out by William Manchester in theopus, p. 247: [H: Don't you find involvement with such as the "Agricultural Adjustment Administration" a bit interesting--what does Agriculture have to do with anything attached to this mess? Perhaps it is the same as SENDING ARMS TO IRAQ, ETC., THROUGH THE AGRICULTURAL DEPARTMENT AND CLIFFORD'S BCCI? MY, my.]
....when the Dallas Bar Association's president drove to the station, Oswald declined his assistance, declaring a preference for John Abt, a New York lawyer celebrated for his defenses of political prisoners.
The parallelism of the above with the words of the IJA preamble is striking.
In 1937, Fortas left Yale and went to Washington to work full-time for the Securities and Exchange Commission. From 1934 to 1937 Fortas had worked
The leading committee of the Ware Group included:
Nathan Witt
August 1933 through February 1934--attorney on the staff of the AAA.
Lee Pressman
1933--Assistant General Counsel of the AAA.
John J. Abt
1933--Attorney for the AAA.
Charles Kramer alias "Krivitsky"
1933--On the staff of the AAA.
(pp. 343-344.)
Every one of them was a Communist. Chambers omits Hiss from the list. Hiss, like the others, was, in 1933-1934, a member of both the Ware Group of underground Communists and of the Agricultural Adjustment Administration. But his transfer to the staff on the Nye Committee of the Senate, investigating munitions-makers, was in prospect, and Chambers says the Party thought it prudent to separate Hiss from the group. But here in 1933-34, at the outset of the New Deal, are five AAA lawyers: Hiss, Pressman, Witt, Abt, and Kramer, all known to be Communists, and the Assistant Chief of the AAA Legal Division is Abe Fortas, who is not known to be a Communist. It is no wonder the justice is scrupulous in avoiding imputations of guilt by association! John Abt is the one Lee Harvey Oswald said he wanted for his lawyer. One wonders what chance Oswald had of retaining him, though it might have been a problem for Abt to turn him down. The problem never came to a head. Jack Ruby saw to that. The reason Oswald wanted Abt is brought out by William Manchester in theopus, p. 247: [H: Don't you find involvement with such as the "Agricultural Adjustment Administration" a bit interesting--what does Agriculture have to do with anything attached to this mess? Perhaps it is the same as SENDING ARMS TO IRAQ, ETC., THROUGH THE AGRICULTURAL DEPARTMENT AND CLIFFORD'S BCCI? MY, my.]
....when the Dallas Bar Association's president drove to the station, Oswald declined his assistance, declaring a preference for John Abt, a New York lawyer celebrated for his defenses of political prisoners.
The parallelism of the above with the words of the IJA preamble is striking.
In 1937, Fortas left Yale and went to Washington to work full-time for the Securities and Exchange Commission. From 1934 to 1937 Fortas had worked
- Ed.Ledoux
- Posts : 3361
Join date : 2012-01-04
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Mon 17 Jul 2017, 11:04 pm
From 1934 to 1937 Fortas had worked part-time for the SEC. In 1936, John Abt worked for the SEC--Special Counsel in the case against Electric Bond and Share. It is a small world. Fortas moved on up to the bureaucracy. From SEC he went to the Public Works Administration and from there to the Department of the Interior. In 1942, when he was thirty-two, Abe Fortas was made Under Secretary of the Interior. Old Ickes (Harold the curmudgeon) liked him. So did Franklin D. Roosevelt. Ickes wrote in his diary:
The President spoke in high terms of Abe Fortas' qualities and said that he was thinking of taking him away from me and making him a member of the SEC. I told him Fortas was very important to me.
So that is how Fortas got to be Under Secretary. Nothing wrong with it. Nothing wrong with being in demand in two agencies and getting a promotion.
It was about this time that Abe Fortas and Lyndon Johnson became acquainted. Johnson first went to Congress by special election in 1937, the same year Fortas moved to Washington from New Haven. The young Schemers hit it off together. They palled around, too, with Eliot Janeway and an older lawyer, Edwin Weisl, who was later to become a bitter enemy of Joseph Kennedy. My authority for this is Rowland Evans and Robert Novak. (Lyndon B. Johnson: The Exercise of Power, pp. 8-9, 281.)
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Tue 18 Jul 2017, 12:51 am
_________________
Prayer Man: More Than a Fuzzy Picture (E-)Book @ Amazon.
Prayer-Man.com
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Tue 18 Jul 2017, 7:01 am
Ed. Ledoux wrote:Never rule out the paint sniffs.
Sorry if Greg or anyone had posted about the founder of the ACLU and founding member of the DCLU
Brannin.
There may be something you might not have connected...
https://tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/fbrbn
During a three-month trip to Mexico in 1922 Brannin began what became a long-time association with the Federated Press, a labor news service. In the San Francisco area he worked for a while as assistant editor of Labor Unity. In 1925 the Brannins toured Europe and the Soviet Union, making contact with radicals wherever they went. Afterwards the couple returned once more to Seattle, where Brannin became director of Seattle Labor College. In 1933 they moved with their adopted son, Robert, to Dallas. There they continued for the next several decades to involve themselves on a grass-roots level with causes and politics. They joined the Socialist party, and in 1936 Brannin was the party's unsuccessful nominee for governor. He became state secretary of the party and was involved especially in efforts to organize labor. In 1938 he resigned this post; thereafter the Brannins aligned themselves with the liberal side of the Democratic party in Texas.
The Brannins joined the First Unitarian Church in Dallas in 1947. During the 1950s and 1960s their attention turned more and more to the civil rights movement. Brannin became a member of the executive committee of the local National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. The couple participated in efforts in Dallas to desegregate various facilities, often joining picket lines when they were in their seventies.
According to an old Ed Forum thread, Brannin at best was a co-founder of DCLU. He was the secretary. Seems nearly everyone associated with it was in the Unitarian Church.
_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise.
Lachie Hulme
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
Me
"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." Don Jeffries
"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott
https://gregrparker.com
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Tue 18 Jul 2017, 7:42 am
_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise.
Lachie Hulme
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
Me
"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." Don Jeffries
"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott
https://gregrparker.com
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Tue 18 Jul 2017, 8:01 am
Ed Ledoux wrote:From 1934 to 1937 Fortas had worked part-time for the SEC. In 1936, John Abt worked for the SEC--Special Counsel in the case against Electric Bond and Share. It is a small world.
Not sure if this is what you're alluding to but Electric Bond and Share was Edwin Ekdahl's employer. Definitely a small world.
Ekdahl hires Korth who would ultimately have power over Oswald's discharge status.
Ekdahl employed by Electric Bond and Share who are involved in a court case against the SEC with the latter represented by John Abt who would be suggested as a suitable attorney for Oswald.
_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise.
Lachie Hulme
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
Me
"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." Don Jeffries
"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott
https://gregrparker.com
- Ed.Ledoux
- Posts : 3361
Join date : 2012-01-04
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Tue 18 Jul 2017, 9:32 am
Foreman was smart man.
He was not pro bono, but a fee Lee could afford... money would flow in to the Oswald defense from donations guaranteed.
Oswald would be a famous case without a doubt.
Abe Fortas and the EB&S case, Abt, Ekdahl, etc are coincidences of course.
Just that the odds are Las Vegas worthy.
Leopold and Loeb schooled with Abt in Chicago, Abt testifies in their defense.
There are a few other details and historical occurrences but
I believe Greg has covered the rest.
Cheers, Ed
He was not pro bono, but a fee Lee could afford... money would flow in to the Oswald defense from donations guaranteed.
Oswald would be a famous case without a doubt.
Abe Fortas and the EB&S case, Abt, Ekdahl, etc are coincidences of course.
Just that the odds are Las Vegas worthy.
Leopold and Loeb schooled with Abt in Chicago, Abt testifies in their defense.
There are a few other details and historical occurrences but
I believe Greg has covered the rest.
Cheers, Ed
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Tue 18 Jul 2017, 9:46 am
I'd agree for sure that these are genuine coincidences.Ed. Ledoux wrote:Foreman was smart man.
He was not pro bono, but a fee Lee could afford... money would flow in to the Oswald defense from donations guaranteed.
Oswald would be a famous case without a doubt.
Abe Fortas and the EB&S case, Abt, Ekdahl, etc are coincidences of course.
Just that the odds are Las Vegas worthy.
Leopold and Loeb schooled with Abt in Chicago, Abt testifies in their defense.
There are a few other details and historical occurrences but
I believe Greg has covered the rest.
Cheers, Ed
_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise.
Lachie Hulme
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
Me
"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." Don Jeffries
"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott
https://gregrparker.com
- Ed.Ledoux
- Posts : 3361
Join date : 2012-01-04
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Tue 18 Jul 2017, 10:16 am
- Ed.Ledoux
- Posts : 3361
Join date : 2012-01-04
Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Tue 18 Jul 2017, 10:38 am
Bio and articles have Brannin as Charter Member or founding member, all are distinctions of privilege in an organization.
. Brannin continued to speak for liberal causes before local government bodies, to work with the local chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union (the founder of which, Roger Baldwin, was an old friend)
While he wasn't Thee founder he had his ear.
What would be important is did they all discuss or talk about thr DCLU contingent and the midnight press conference where Lee said he wanted counsel to come forward, as Lee was not allowed a phone and phone book till Saturday afternoon. Of couse too late to reach a lawyer.
usually if you are hauled in on Friday or Saturday you will remain in jail till a lawyer on Monday can get before a magistrate.
Capital offense precluded the bond portion of the "arraignment" which saved Lee that phone call,
still Lee needed to have counsel present to call for a hearing ... so the ACLU went home, did not ask to be at the so called "1:35 arraignment" the one the boys huddled up after the press conference to decide to have it... rubbish! They decided in that huddle to go home and wait for indictment to arraign, I think the DPD was pawning that off onto the Sheriff's office, to take Lee into court.
Bart has proven the 1:35 arraignment never happened.
Johnston and Hosty prove it.
Myth eviscerated.
. Brannin continued to speak for liberal causes before local government bodies, to work with the local chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union (the founder of which, Roger Baldwin, was an old friend)
While he wasn't Thee founder he had his ear.
What would be important is did they all discuss or talk about thr DCLU contingent and the midnight press conference where Lee said he wanted counsel to come forward, as Lee was not allowed a phone and phone book till Saturday afternoon. Of couse too late to reach a lawyer.
usually if you are hauled in on Friday or Saturday you will remain in jail till a lawyer on Monday can get before a magistrate.
Capital offense precluded the bond portion of the "arraignment" which saved Lee that phone call,
still Lee needed to have counsel present to call for a hearing ... so the ACLU went home, did not ask to be at the so called "1:35 arraignment" the one the boys huddled up after the press conference to decide to have it... rubbish! They decided in that huddle to go home and wait for indictment to arraign, I think the DPD was pawning that off onto the Sheriff's office, to take Lee into court.
Bart has proven the 1:35 arraignment never happened.
Johnston and Hosty prove it.
Myth eviscerated.
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum