Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2

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Professor Charles ("Chuck") Webster
Very little can be gleaned from the Warren Commission volumes about Charles Webster except that he had been at police head-quarters most of the day following the assassination; that he was a law professor at the Southern Methodist University (SMU); that he gave assurances to the DCLU delegation about Oswald's civil rights; that he had taken this delegation to Captain King for further assurances; that he may himself have been involved with the DCLU; and that he very likely attended a meeting with various officials regarding the upcoming arraignment. However, there is one document of no little interest in the HSCA subject files. It is a FBI memo regarding the American GI Forum and is dated June 20, 1960. This indicates that Bill Lowery had attended a meeting of a committee which had formed to support Webtser's run for Congress. The committee members were mainly CPUSA members or past members.[6] Lowery had been a founding member of the Dallas branch of the American GI Forum along with TSBD employee, Joe Molina. He had also been an FBI informant/infiltration agent since 1945. Another of those founding members was Felix Bartello (also an informant). Bartello was later to become a member of a Minutemen splinter group which had formed in support of Edwin Walker's efforts at Oxford. One of the other members, Ashland Burchwell, had been caught en-route to Mississippi with a car load of weapons.

In 1963, Lowery testified against a suspected communist named John Stafford before the Subversive Activities Control Board (SACB) in Washington. Stafford is also mentioned in the above document. The case drew headlines when RFK asked Texas state authorities to refrain from taking action on Stafford until the Feds were through with him. Further controversy arose when Lowery's status as informant was blown when, at the hearings, he admitted he had infiltrated the GI Forum and other reputable groups for the FBI. The FBI predictably denied he was acting for anyone other than the CPUSA - a lie exposed through the release of files.

As a sidebar, it may well be the Stafford case that gave Edwin Walker the idea to allege RFK had intervened in having Oswald released from police custody after being arrested for the Apr 10 so-called assassination attempt. Prof. Webster seems to have had a very cozy relationship with the Dallas DPD for someone of so pink a hue.

Grier & Louise Raggio timeline
1938: Louise Ballerstedt joins the American Friends Service Committee and spends that summer working in Galena, Illinois for the Society of Friends

1939: Louise graduates from the University of Texas and is awarded a Rockefeller Foundation grant for a one-year internship at the White House. Here, she meets the likes of Eleanor Roosevelt, befriends LBJ and dates John Connally. While in Washington, she also works for the National Youth Administration (NYA)

1940: Louise returns to Austin still with the NYA, working under Jake Pickle.[7] April 19, 1941: Grier Raggio and Louise Ballerstedt marry after a short courtship. Grier, a lawyer, is working for the Department of Agriculture investigating misuse of food stamps for purchase of alcohol and other illegal substances

December 7, 1941: Pearl Harbor is attacked by the Japanese resulting in the US entering WWII and Grier is drafted

March, 1942: Grier is sent to Pacific Theater after initially being sent to New Orleans to attend Officer's Training School for Intelligence where he is rejected on security grounds. He serves with the 386th Air Service Group. During the course of the war he would send letters home highly critical of the US army

August 6, 1942: First son Grier, Jr is born

September, 1945: Grier returns from the war and works for the Veteran's Administration Board

1946: Second son Tom is born

1947: At the insistence of Grier, Louise enrols in Southern Methodist University law School

1947: Third son Kenneth is born. Louise drops out of law school

1948: Grier is relieved of duties while answering 8 charges of "Un-American activities" including; being a member of the Communist Party; a member of the American Spanish Aid Committee; a member of the American Civil Rights Union; that he had advocated and praised the Russian system of government to co-workers and; that on another occasion had advocated the overthrow of the government by force. He and Louise travel to Washington where Grier appears before the Veterans Administrations Loyalty Board. He denies all charges except one - telling a fellow worker that “there is no difference between Stalin forcing Communism on the countries of Europe and the US forcing democracy on them”. This statement he asserts, had been taken out of context. He is cleared by the board and returns to work. Throughout this period and perhaps beyond, the Raggio's claim their phone is tapped and that they are under constant surveillance

1949: Louise and Grier join the Unitarian Church

1950: Louise returns to law school

1952: Louise graduates and does volunteer work for the League of Women Voters and the Women’s Alliance of the Unitarian Church while practicing law part-time from home. Meanwhile, Grier is again the focus of government interest in his activities

1953: Louise obtains a job as an assistant DA under Henry Wade through the help of friend and mentor, Judge Sarah T Hughes. Judge Hughes would, after the assassination of JFK, administer the oath of office to LBJ

March 1, 1954: Grier is guest speaker at a meeting of the Peace and World Relations Group of the Temple Emanu-El Sisterhood. His subject is, "Are We in Danger of Losing Our Civil Rights and Liberties?"

1955: Grier Raggio opens a law office in the Rio Grande Building in Dallas [8]

April, 1956: Louise quits DA's office to join her husband's law practice. Firm is now known as Raggio & Raggio and specializes in divorce cases

1957: Louise's former employer, Jake Pickle, becomes director of the Texas State Democratic Executive Committee. Holds that position until 1960

1960: Louise serves on the newly organized Family Law Section of the State Bar

1961: Jake Pickle becomes a member of the Texas Employment Commission

1961: Sarah Hughes becomes a Federal District Judge

January 27, 1963: Grier debates Wyatt W Lipscomb, city attorney in Garland for the Soroptimist Club of Dallas at the Baker Hotel. Subject of debate is "Does Membership in the United Nations Serve the Best interests of the United States?" Louise is a club member

November 13, 1963: Ruth Paine files a petition for divorce stating she separated from Michael on September 1, 1962, and that for 6 months prior to
separation, she had suffered a course of "unkind, cruel harsh and tyrannical treatment and conduct" at the hands of her husband. Ruth's attorney in this filing was Louise Raggio.[9] Recall that the Paine's and Raggio's attend the same church

November 22, 1963 Morning: Grier and Louise are at the Trade Mart for the luncheon [10]

November 22, 1963 Evening: Grier gets a call either from an ACLU member in Austin (according Greg Olds) or from Washington (according to Louise) concerning either finding out if Oswald was being denied counsel (according to Olds) or asking that he witness Oswald's arraignment (according to Louise). Grier phones Olds about this. In turn, Olds phones police, then calls Grier back. Grier suggests they go down and check out the situation

November 22, 1963, 11:15 PM: Olds, Raggio and 2 other DCLU members meet across from City Hall at Plaza Hotel, then try to talk to Earl Cabell without success before speaking with Prof. Charles Webster outside the office of Captain Fritz

November 22, 1963, 11:40 PM: Webster takes delegation to Captain King

November 22, 1963, 11:50 PM: According to Wade, Grier Raggio and Charles Webster are both at a meeting just prior to the midnight press conference regarding the arraignment in the JFK case. David Johnston however, only named himself, Curry, Fritz, Wade and 2 or 3 assistant DAs as being present

Midnight: According to Olds, the others in the delegation go home at the time he goes down to watch the press conference [11]

1970: Grier and Louise's eldest son, Grier, Jr starts up a journal called "The New Democrat" which he edits with Stephen Schlesinger, son of JFK aide and historian, Arthur

October 26, 1970: Conservative journalist, John Chamberlain writes widely published article, "Where else Can Democrats Go?" predicts that Raggio (whom Chamberlain describes as a Mayor John Lindsay functionary) and Schlesinger are "sewing the dragon's teeth" through their support of McGovern which he states will lead to problems at the '72 convention unless the Left gets its way

1972: Gary Allen, a John Birch Society propagandist and author of "None Dare Call it Conspiracy" publishes "Richard Nixon: The Man Behind the Mask" which quotes from the Chamberlain article, suggesting that Nixon and some of the Left in the Democratic Party are "part of the same conspiracy".

According to Allen, the Left, with Raggio and chlesinger playing prominent roles, will split the party, ensuring an easy win for Nixon

guns & money
There are two other people named Raggio who turn up in the records. Any connection to Grier Raggio is unknown, and they are mentioned here only for the benefit of anyone who might have an interest in genealogy. The first is David L Raggio originally of Natchitoches, Louisiana. He was a WWII veteran who served with the 879th Airborne Engineers.

Raggio, in 1963 and by now a geologist, entered into a partnership with Richard Davis and Gus de la Barre. The business which resulted was known as the Guatemalan Lumber & Mineral Corp. In actuality however, it was a front for training Cuban exiles at camps in the area around Lake Pontchartrain.

The second is William Raggio. As Washoe County District Attorney and friend of Frank Sinatra, he was heavily involved in the investigation into the December 8, 1963 kidnapping of Sinatra's son, Frank Jr. In March, 1968, New Orleans played host to the National Convention of District Attorneys. An awards banquet was planned as part of the convention with Hubert Humphrey originally slated as guest speaker. When Humphrey withdrew after hearing how Garrison was criticizing LBJ over various aspects of the Shaw case, as well as the original investigation of the assassination, Garrison placed himself into the guest speaker role.

The organizing committee, fretting over what Garrison might say, requested a meeting with him. The meeting culminated in barbed exchanges between Garrison and Raggio - who had attempted to warn Garrison to leave out any mention of the assassination in his speech. Garrison reacted by cancelling the banquet and shipping all the catered food to an orphanage.

In 1970, Richard Nixon hatched plans to recapture a hostile senate for the Republicans at the Nov 3rd elections. To this end, he hand-picked 9 candidates. Among them was William Raggio. Raggio failed in his bid.

In 1972, he did win a seat in the Nevada state senate, and has held it ever since.


ENDNOTES
[1] Commission Exhibit 987 is a letter from Greg Olds to J Lee Rankin. It is on DCLU letterhead which lists all board members and other office holders within the organization.

[2] Also according to Louise Raggio, her husband had called Olds at the insistence of someone from the Washington Office - not Austin.

[3] Commission Document 87, p 549

[4] Treasure-Hunting in the National Archives, The Third Decade, vol 2, # 2 by Sylvia Meagher, January 1986. The document cited by Meagher in the article is found in Commission Document 5, p 400

[5] The 1:35 Arraignment and the Rewriting of History, The Third Decade, vol 3, # 4 by Timothy Cwiek, May, 1987

[6] NARA Record Number: 124-90010-10040

[7] Pickle bio: 1938; United States Navy, served three and a half years; area director, National Youth Administration, 1938-1941; radio business; public relations executive; director of Texas state Democratic Executive Committee, 1957-1960; member of Texas Employment Commission, 1961-1963). He had also been a political aide to LBJ and in Nov 1963 was the Democratic Nominee in the 10th District run-off with Republican Jim Dobbs. He was hated by the liberal faction of his own party who had got Kennedy over the line in Texas in 1960. In fact, one of those Kennedy supporters, Jack Ritter appeared on TV, Nov 21 urging those who had previously supported him to now support Dobbs, indicating that Pickle was not an acceptable candidate for the Democrats, and had been "less than forthright" during debates. Kennedy was due in Austin after the Dallas visit.

[8] The 112th MIG also had an office in the Rio Grande Building, as did the Immigration & Naturalization Service. The latter was listed in Oswald's address book

[9] Warren Commission Document 849, p33. As no further action was taken within 6 months of filing, the case was automatically dismissed

[10] November 22 - The Day Remembered by Morning News Staff, Dallas, p136

[11] Unless otherwise stated, background information on Louise and Grier Raggio has been sourced from the roster of the 386th Air Service Group; Louise Raggio's autobiography, Texas Tornado; Louise Raggio profile from the Texas State Bar; article published by the Texas Women Lawyers Association, "Louise B Raggio: Handing the Torch to Today's Generation" and; The Dallas Morning News archives

"Greg, this is mostly for you. It turns out that there is no such thing as an "Alpawna box", as Leon Hubert suggested. Later in the evening of November 22, 1963, John McCullough, reporter from the Philadelphia Bulletin, bumped into Jack Ruby. McCullough said Ruby was wearing a gray porkpie hat, very wooly, and a blue topcoat. He was holding a box that had a blue background and white lettering on it that spelled, "Alpacuna" Alpacuna was a brand of men's outerwear manufactured by the Jacob Siegel Co., then of Philadelphia. Earlier, in 1946, Siegel sued the FTC in order to retain the use of his brand name, Alpacuna, since lower courts had threatened to make him abandon it on the grounds that it was misleading, bordering on false advertising. Although the coat was partially made of alpaca, there was no vicuna in it. Further, Siegel had advertised products as including material that was not actually in them. Eventually, Siegel had to stop false advertising as regards non-included materials, but was allowed to keep the Alpacuna label. Now just what Ruby was doing holding such a box, measuring 8 inches by 5 inches by 3 and one-half inches, is beyond me. Questioned by Burt Griffin, McCullough was informed by Griffin that people had seen Ruby with neither topcoat nor hat that evening. Yet McCullough was certain that it was indeed Ruby he had encountered."
Roy [by Royce Bierma, September 11, 2008]

Where did Jack take his hat/s and coat, whom was the Alpacuna hat for and in who's office was Ruby's hat and overcoat left while he attended press conferences and worked the halls of the DPD?


what Ruby was doing holding such a box, measuring 8 inches by 5 inches by 3 and one-half inches

Was it really a cigar box as Greg said he thought it may have been, rather than textiles.
Square and too thin to be a hat ... sweater? Really?

Mr. John Mccullough.
..... assignment in Dallas. But most of the time I was on the floor and in a corridor outside the room in which principals in the assassination of the President and the subsequent events were being questioned by Dallas police officials. And I believe by members of the Federal agencies.
I was not alone. There were at least 50 other reporters along this narrow corridor. It was around midnight, to the best of my recollection, when they brought a man who police told us was Lee Harvey Oswald into an interrogation room. Trying to get a look at the physical setup inside this room, I stood briefly on a metal ashtray that was in the corridor. And coming down from this metal ashtray, I hit with my right elbow a man who was standing beside me. I apologized for bumping into the man and expressed the hope that I had
not struck his notes, assuming he was another reporter. He explained to me that he was not a reporter, that he was a businessman in Dallas, and I noted then that he was carrying a box. I would guess it was about 8 inches to a foot square. And the reason I remember it is on one side, in white lettering, on a blue background, was the word "Alpacuna." It struck me as odd, that a reporter would be carrying a box.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/13440-the-alpacuna-box/

Likely was a cigar box based on shape /size/dimensions.
Greg your link is no longer good.
Can you give a description of the box that link went to?
http://www.tias.com//stores/jlive/

This box was a gift no doubt,,,
Was it a gift to a cigar smoker?! A DPD Cigar Smoker.
https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/lb_maccammon.jpg?quality=85&w=687

Cigar Box go boom!
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=54017&relPageId=72&search=%22cigar_box%22

Did Ruby go back to his car and leave the box, was it found in the car inventory? If not at home then someone at the DPD took a gift from Jack Ruby and possibly let him hang his hat and coat up.

And the Alpacuna box could not be for an Over or Top coat, they would never fit in a cigar sized box.
Alpacuna made only coats, large overcoats or topcoats, as they were famous for this.
I have looked and see nothing made other than overcoats.
No hats, ties, nothing small, no children's line.
And a Philly reporter just happens to be where the Philly reporter would bump into a man carrying a box bearing a name that would be familiar to any one who's ever shopped for men's fashion in Philadelphia or had read his own cities news papers advertising as the Philadelphia Enquirer and Life magazine carried the advertising.
Esquire Oct 1962
 https://www.etsy.com/listing/475949306/1962-alpacuna-overcoat-advertisement
Mr. McCULLOUGH. No; except that there was, again, a period of time ensuing between my arrival at the police headquarters and my seeing Ruby, and that would have been occupied on my part by trying to talk to the police officials and trying to get, I believe, to see Wade and interviewing just everyone I could get ahold of who knew anything at all about it.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you saw the man you believed was Ruby, did.he indicate to you what kind of business he was in?
Mr. McCULLOUGH. No; he didn't say what kind of business. This is what made the box stay in my mind. I assumed he was a shirt merchant or something, or that it was a sweater. And there, again, the reason for my remembering him was a bit of annoyance on my part that there was outsiders in that row, when it was terribly crowded.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did this look like the kind of box one would carry clothes or shirts or sweaters in?
Mr. McCULLOUGH. Only because I in my own mind related the word Alpacuna to some sort of textile trade name. I had never seen the name before.
Mr. GRIFFIN. I don't know what Alpacuna is. Have you subsequently learned?
731-231 O-64-Vol.XV---25

---

Mr. McCULLOUGH. No; and the man at the time was wearing, I believe it is called, a porkpie hat, and he had a topcoat. This, I remembered, because most of the reporters were not wearing topcoats, and certainly were not wearing hats.
Mr. GRIFFIN. What kind of a topcoat did he have on?
Mr. McCULLOUGH. It was a dark blue topcoat.
Mr. GRIFFIN. When you rubbed elbows with this man, what, was his response in the sense of--was it a polite gentlemanly response?
Mr. McCULLOUGH. It was a smile. And the explanation, as I said, that he was not a newspaperman, and that he was a businessman. In other words, he indicated there was no need to apologize, that I had not struck his notes or made him scribble. And he, as everyone along there, was starting into this door, waiting to see what would happen next.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see him again?
Mr. McCULLOGH. No; I did not see him at the press conference at which Oswald appeared. However, the fact that he was there and wearing the same clothing was told me later by a police judge who was present at that press conference.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Justice of the Peace David Johnston?
Mr. McCULLOUGH. Yes. I went to his office the following day in another part of--actually in a suburb of Dallas, to follow up the story. And--I am sorry, it was not the following day. It must have been Monday, when it was then clear that the man who shot Oswald was Ruby. And I mentioned to Johnston that I had bumped into this man. And the police judge said, that he, too, had seen him at the press conference, and that Ruby had approached him and handed him a card, a gray card, advertising the club that he operated.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Do you have a clear recollection that Johnston said that Ruby was wearing an overcoat?
Mr. McCULLOUGH. This I don't--I have no clear recollection, but I did mention the clothing, the hat, and Johnston said that this was the same--the hat I did mention.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Yes.
Mr. McCULLOUGH. But I don't remember whether or not I mentioned the topcoat.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Were you able to see what sort of clothes the man you believe was Ruby had on under the topcoat?
Mr. McCULLOUGH. No; I could not see that. However, after the jostling, after I had jostled him, we did stand together, I would guess, for 5 or 10 minutes. There was no further exchange, conversation between us.
Mr. GRIFFIN. Did you see him attempt to talk or talk with other people?
Mr. McCULLOUGH. No; I did not notice; no.


As Greg and Bart will astutely point out it John McCullough had a story about Lee and the arraignment but seems to be sidetracked by Ruby, does not oblige to allow an interview about his follow up on Johnston.

Either the story is bunk or Ruby was toting a tiny coat about in a box marked Alpacuna... http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9406E5DA1430EF3BBC4953DFB0668388679EDE&legacy=true
Please show me anything but a makers box ie 'Jacob Siegel of Philadelphia' and it will be large enough to hold a topcoat.
Sorry the Alpacuna mystery is not solved, barring Greg's link was to a cigar box with Alpacuna on it!

Cheers, Ed

Greg, A humidor is a device, fwiw.

At the same time the DOD is supposed to be reading the charges to Oswald at his mystery arraignment across town a family is being awoken...

about 1:30 a.m. on November 23, 1963, the Dallas Police searched the home of Joe R. Molina, an employee of the Texas School Book Depository.
Later that day, Molina was questioned at police headquarters over a period of 6 or 7 hours. (Warren Commission Report, pp 237-238) 

Now the cops and DA are under 'order' from Washington to have no conspiracies, conspiratorial evidence, or conspirators, yet they are at Molina's home with a warrant???
Oswald is specifically not charged with a possible conspiracy to commit murder
How was that going to work?
They could not connect Molina and his commie club activities to the commie killer without it being conspiratorial.
Yet here they are at Molina's residence while simultaneously 'arraigning' Lee.
Cheers,
Ed

Let me put the Louise Raggio material up, as there are a few things to see:
Ms. Raggio was class valedictorian at Austin High School. Four years later, in 1939, she graduated magna cum laude from the University of Texas at Austin, with a bachelor’s degree and a teacher’s certificate.

But before becoming a classroom teacher, Ms. Raggio took a nine-month Rockefeller fellowship in public administration at American University in Washington, where she met her idol, Eleanor Roosevelt.

She met the first lady at a dinner in the White House family quarters.

“She took care of us like her own kids,” Ms. Raggio once said. “She became absolutely my heroine.”

In 1941, while on the fellowship, she met and married Grier Raggio. Mr. Raggio, who also was a lawyer, died in 1988.

Judge Hughes had been pressing Dallas County District Attorney Henry Wade to hire a woman as an assistant district attorney in 1954.

Ms. Raggio once won a criminal case with an all-woman jury in Dallas County. The verdict made news all over Texas because women had only recently been allowed to sit on juries.

she attended the Southern Methodist University School of Law, she was the only woman in her law school class. Later, she was the first female criminal assistant district attorney in Dallas County and was the first woman to be elected as a director of the State Bar of Texas.


September 19, 1968
Irving Daily News from Irving, Texas · Page 1
Mrs. Virginia Chancey. assistant professor of psychology at Southern Methodist University; Mrs Louise Raggio. attorney; and Mrs Joseph W. Schuh. executive director of the Dallas Council on Alcoholism. Sponsors of the unique seminar are the University of Tex as Southwestern Medical School, SMU and the Dallas Chapter of Parents Without Partners. Dr Robert L Stubblefield. head of the department of psychiatry and Dr David Hubbard, staff member. will represent the medical school. Dr. Robert Elliott, associate professor of pastoral theology at Perkins School of Theology, will represent SMU Representatives from the single parent group who are participating in the program will be Mrs Ruth Swaab general chairman. Mrs Bettye Shafer. immediate past president of the local chapter, serving as program chairman: and James W Ramey Jr.. Irving attorney and chapter president. Special guest speaker for this postgraduate short course in family problems will be Dr Ashley Montagu, noted social anthropologist, lecturer and author He will discuss The Single Parent The Challange Featured luncheon speaker will be Dr Howard J Cline bell, professor of pastoral counseling. School of Theology at Claremont. California whose topic will be be The Church and the Single Parent A Challenge to the Ministry The congress is especially planned for educators, ministers, attorneys, physicians, social workers, psychiatrists psychologists and others interested in the problems of single parents in society Its purpose is to provide guidelines for professionals in working with single parents st# lliat the latter may become a more contributive part of society Registration fee for the two day affair, including both luncheon and dinner tickets for Sept 30 is $18 Registration for workshops only or for either luncheon or dinner may be obtained separately Tickets to audit the talks of Dr Clinebell and Dr Montagu also are available at $1.50 each For further information or reservations, call 521 9400 The public is invited
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/82798521/

Thx Bart.
Steve is correct as that was part of one of the articles I posted above.
They (Webster and Curry) continued this (institute) training into the 60's

and to your question on Mcdervid/Mcdavid

DL 100-10461
RPG: gj
1
ruler date of November 23, 1963, the Chicago
Office advised that information had been received from
Confidential Informant DL T-2 to this effect that an
attorney bad attempted to telephonically contact LEE
HARVEY OSWALD at Dallas, Texas. Informant did not
possess the attorney's name but subsequently advised that
at 11:07 AM on November 23, 1963, a Mr. HAROLD E.MC-DERVID
had attempted to telephonically contact OSWALD at Dallas
where he talked with an Officer SCHOMAK at the Dallas
Police Department and after talking to SCHOMAK, he asked
to be transferred to Western Union.
According to informant, MC DERVID allegedly
resided at 1359 East 57th Street, Chicago, Illinois
and had telephone number 667-5703.


FBI CG 62-6115 FD-302 with Harold E. McDermid 2.20.64 Chicago

667-5703 Chicago. Harold E. McDermid (atty) Ref. CD 735 p.375. Tried 11/23
to phone Oswald. And see comment by Wade V p.240.

https://www.plainsite.org/profiles/harold-e-mc-dermid/




Cheers, Ed

Possibility was Harold was associated with Ruby

Harold Edward McDermid
http://members.calbar.ca.gov/fal/Member/Detail/40395

Harold Mcdermid Graduated Austin High School Chicago Ill, 1944
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1944-Chicago-Austin-High-School-Yearbook-Photos-History-Football-Skating-WWII-/261620896663

Grover Proctor's investigation of Raleigh NC call:
 One variant of my 'incoming call' scenario is that Oswald had gotten the message that John Hurt had called, and that he was trying to return the call. In that case, perhaps the Dallas operator would have used the two (unpublished?) Raleigh numbers in an attempt to locate Hurt. (Would operators have done this for a person-to-person call?)
      One problem with this hypothesis is that the Dallas Police apparently withheld from Oswald the telegram from Chicago lawyer Harold McDermid, offering his services, so I doubt that they would have told him about a call from John Hurt.
      Finally, under the hypothesis that Oswald was making a sinister contact with some relevance to the assassination, is it plausible that he would have known the address and city of his contact, but not the phone number or street? Doesn't seem very likely to me.


The following information is from the official records of The State Bar of California.

Bar Number:	40395
Address:	277 Stratford Dr San Francisco, CA 94132-0057	Phone Number:	(415) 585-5565
		Fax Number:	Not Available
Email:	Not Available
County:	San Francisco	Undergraduate School:	Northwestern Univ; Evanston IL
District:	District 1
Sections:	None	Law School:	Northwestern Univ SOL; Chicago IL

Status History

Effective Date	Status Change
Present	Inactive
1/1/2006	Inactive
6/13/1967	Admitted to The State Bar of California

Garry, Dreyfus, McTernan & Brotsky, Benjamin Dreyfus and Harold McDermid for Petitioner.

Joseph A. Ball, Melvin M. Belli, George E. Bodle, Willie L. Brown, Jr., Grant B. Cooper, LeRoy Hersh, Michael J. Keady, Robert S. Morris, Clinton W. White and A. L. Wirin as Amici Curiae on behalf of Petitioner.
http://www.personsdata.com/law-case/cw7w9idJ/

Wirin was an ACLU lawyer associated with the RFK case.
-----------------------------
Ronald L. TODD and Michael Cochran, et al., Plaintiffs,
v.
JOINT APPRENTICESHIP COMMITTEE OF the STEEL WORKERS OF CHICAGO and International Association of Bridge, Structural and Ornamental Iron Workers Local Union No. 1, et al., Defendants.
No. 63 C 1739.
United States District Court N. D. Illinois, E. D.

October 16, 1963.
*13 William R. Ming, Jr., Harold McDermid, Chicago, Ill., for plaintiffs.

This was a case based on racial discrimination.

McDermid's telegram to Oswald never got past Curry

"Your telegram 23rd LEE OSWALD, City Hall delivered 'to Chief of Police'. This is as far as our messenger allowed to go."
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/M%20Disk/McDervid%20Harold%20E/Item%2001.pdf

https://case-law.vlex.com/vid/223-f-supp-12-597498738

        William R. Ming, Jr., Harold McDermid, Chicago, Ill., for plaintiffs


McDermids have their own Chicago cemetery,
https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gsr&GSln=McDermid&GSiman=1&GSst=12&


Read more about the law firm!!! Bob Ming, etc...
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=28&ved=0ahUKEwif2fuA44fVAhUiqVQKHcdfCkM4FBAWCEMwBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fchicagounbound.uchicago.edu%2Fcgi%2Fviewcontent.cgi%3Ffilenam
e%3D1%26article%3D1067%26context%3Dlawschoolrecord%26type%3Dadditional&usg=AFQjCNEAezGbFw9zcmPfiqIIyqTHkDyMOg

greg parker wrote:McDermid's telegram to Oswald never got past Curry

"Your telegram 23rd LEE OSWALD, City Hall delivered 'to Chief of Police'. This is as far as our messenger allowed to go."
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/M%20Disk/McDervid%20Harold%20E/Item%2001.pdf

Thanks Greg~!~
Yes Harold called possibly twice, then used a telegram to contact Oswald.
All were stopped short.
Curry pulled a dick cop move in my opinion on Oswald's behalf, and if Webster gave Curry the slip of paper with Abts numbers it would be interesting to know. Especially since the FBI investigated the slip trying to see if it was torn from the jailers notepad.
The idea that an incoming call would be returned, and the operator thus would connect Oswald to an unpublished number is a new take on the dilemma by Proctor.

1. MCDERMID, HAROLD E.
Found in: Mary Ferrell's Database
MCDERMID, HAROLD E.
WC Vol 5, p. 240; CD 653, p. 2; CD 735, pp. 375, 377
Chicago attorney. Offered legal counsel to LHO. On 11/23/63 at 11:07

Cheers!
Ed

Otto Mullinax was on the Advisory Committee of the ACLU affiliated DCLU. 
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=140354

A genealogy site provides some background... but in the long list of associations he was involved with, one is missing: His role on the Advisory Committee of the DCLU.

According to a relative of his on Rootsweb, Otto 

• Was the Grandson-in-law of Robert E Lee Pilgrim (my question: is that someone of historical significance?)
  

(don't ask me what a Grandson-in-law is. No idea  )

• Graduated from The University of Texas in Austin with a law degree in 1937 and joined the law firm of Mandell 
  and Combs in Houston.
  

• Volunteered for the army in 1941 and served in Europe. After war, he helped try the war crimes cases
  

• Returned to the States in 1946 and opened up a law office in Winnsboro.
  

• Moved to Dallas in 1947 and set up a law firm which evolved into Mullinax, Wells, Morris & Mauzy
  

• Served as President of the Dallas United Nations Association.
  

• Was a member of the board of directors of Americans for Democratic Action
  

• Was a Fellow of the American Law-Science Academy.
  

• Served as president of the Dallas Trial Lawyers Assn. 1956
  

• Served as Texas Trial Lawyers Assn. (Dir.) Nat'l Assn. Compensation Claimants Attys. (asso. editor journal 1952-1965)
  

• Was a member of the First Unitarian Church of Dallas.
  

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/PILGRIM/2000-04/0956021093

I note the year he and Nat Wells co-founded the law firm in Dallas was 1947 - the same year that the CIA came into existence. 

Nat Wells quit his job as an attorney for the National Labor Relations Board (NLRB) to join Mullinax in starting up the law practice. 

The NLRB was a noted stepping stone toward joining the fledgling spy agency. 

William Colby was recruited to the CIA while employed by the NRLB.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Colby

Another who was recruited from the NRLB was George Kalaris ("He worked briefly for the National Labor Relations Board before joining the C.I.A. in 1952.")

Kalaris eventually was tasked with cleaning up the mess left by Angleton.
http://www.nytimes.com/1995/09/14/obituaries/george-t-kalaris-73-official-who-changed-cia-s-direction.html

According to the Texas Observer, the DCLU was actually started up by a lawyer named George Schatzki of the Mullinax firm. The same story also has it that Mullinax went to check up on Oswald but was told Oswald did not want an ACLU lawyer,
http://www.texasobserver.org/2714-the-aclu-in-texas-the-early-years

The story about him checking on Oswald is repeated in this book with the minor difference of having Oswald say that he "wanted nothing to do with the ACLU".
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=NQoy5ZDPcuoC&pg=PT96&dq=otto+mullinax+oswald&hl=en&sa=X&ei=UoWPUZrPG8mziQfynoHQBA&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAA

Schatski was another ex National Labor Relations Board lawyer. Curiously, he is not listed as having any association with the DCLU as of 1964 (refer back to the previous link to MFF - letter on DCLU letterhead)

Schatski is still very much alive and someone should talk to him. 
http://apps.law.asu.edu/Apps/Faculty/Faculty.aspx?individual_id=164

Mullinax's law firm represented Jimmy Hoffa and the Teamster Union throughout the southern states (per Hasan)


Mullinax in MFF:
Lowery informs FBI that Mullinax is representing Joe Molina in a lawsuit against a radio station:
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=873627

Schatski representing a professor who had taken part in "sit-ins"
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=1257094

Murray Miller Area Director of Teamsters to be interviewed by FBI in Mullinax law offices re fraud concerning Dallas Cabana 
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=71889&relPageId=2

Ruby goes to pieces over shooting death of an officer Mullinax - gives $150 to his widow and attends funeral.

When Officer L.C. Mullinax was killed while on duty in 1962, Ruby was reportedly deeply affected, grieving over the death for several days.(27) He attended the funeral(28) and forced several strippers-employees to do so. (29) Afterwards, Ruby gave $150 to the officer's widow, even though the light bill at his club was in arrears. (30) Reportedly, Ruby staged a benefit performance for the widow of another slain policeman. (31) Earl Ruby told the committee that his brother once gave a policeman several hundred dollars to cover the cost of his wife's pregnancy. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=75654

Another lawyer with the firm is credited with being the one most responsible for getting Ruby a new trial:

Another lawyer with the firm, Sam Houston Clinton, found a more willing client, however. Clinton was one of several lawyers who represented Jack Ruby, the Dallas nightclub owner convicted of gunning down Oswald in the basement of the Dallas police headquarters. Richards says Clinton handled Ruby’s appeal and was largely responsible for getting the conviction reversed in October 1966. However, Ruby died of lung cancer on Jan. 3, 1967, before he could be retried. http://www.baabdenison.com/article.html

LC Mullinax was with the Vice Squad. It is unknown if he was related Otto, but it is obviously a possibility.

This book gives a rather interesting reason for Ruby shooting Oswald - linking it to the shooting of Officer Mullinax:
[url=http://books.google.com.au/books?id=JlHT_ypQW9UC&lpg=PA155&ots=6VKJqITV0e&dq=mullinax oswald&pg=PA155#v=onepage&q=mullinax &f=false]http://books.google.com.au/books?id=JlHT_ypQW9UC&lpg=PA155&ots=6VKJqITV0e&dq=mullinax%20oswald&pg=PA155#v=onepage&q=mullinax%20%20&f=false[/url]

So if Oswald was shot just hours after Mullinax tried to see him... then this attempt was Sunday morning... with Mullinax being informed that Oswald said the equivalent of the ACLU can go fuck itself!

In any case, we now have two clear cases of Oswald very deliberately being denied an attorney. 

Ruby's appearance must have been quite a relief. I don't think they could have held off denying him counsel much longer...

SPOT ON!!
Two distinct cases of civil rights interference.

And Fritz too knew time was short...



The sight of Ruby shooting down Oswald was exactly what Lt. Butler 'envisioned' , more on him and Ruby to come. (Separate Thread)

Cheers!!
Ed

Ed. Ledoux wrote:SPOT ON!!
Two distinct cases of civil rights interference.

And Fritz too knew time was short...



The sight of Ruby shooting down Oswald was exactly what Lt. Butler 'envisioned' , more on him and Ruby to come. (Separate Thread)

Cheers!!
Ed

Fritz is lying - I have no doubt about that at all.

For Bart:
www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwirwszvlojVAhWCv1QKHQIkAUUQFggwMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjfk.hood.edu%2FCollection%2FWeisberg%2520Subject%2520Index%2520Files%2FO%2520Disk%2FOswald%2520Lee%2520Harvey%2FLegal%2520Rights%2FItem%252001.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHWSWDISIsZuQnUFbMs3Js9n380cA

OR:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwirwszvlojVAhWCv1QKHQIkAUUQFggwMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjfk.hood.edu%2FCollection%2FWeisberg%2520Subject%2520Index%2520Files%2FO%2520Disk%2FOswald%2520Lee%2520Harvey%2FLegal%2520Rights%2FItem%252001.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHWSWDISIsZuQnUFbMs3Js9n380cA

Oh btw I found the telegram,
at least where its located
or at least a photocopy.

Here is a tease, Bart knows exactly where this is located as I sent him coordinates

Telegram, by H. McDermid.  Photocopy of telegram sent to Oswald, (Photocopy), 11/23/63. 00000754  2 pages 02  11  003

Ruby too received lawyers solicitations

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340103/

George.Schatzki@asu.edu


President DCLU 1961-2
George SCHATZKI
http://www.prayer-man.com/category/jfk-assassination/#lightbox[group]/0/

The Dallas ACLU was formed in 1961, started by George Schatzki of the Mullinax & Wells law firm. George later showed up on the University of Texas Law School faculty. The Houston chapter was already in existence, emerging from Chris Dixie’s law firm. Maury Maverick Jr. was a sort of a one-man ACLU chapter in San Antonio. In the early 1960s, the Texas Civil Liberties Union was formed, consisting of these various local chapters. Sam Houston Clinton was the general counsel.

A few historical notes: When Lee Harvey Oswald was first arrested, Otto Mullinax, on behalf of the ACLU, went to the Dallas jail to see if Oswald wanted assistance, and word came back that Oswald did not want to talk to any ACLU lawyer. Oswald was dead a few hours later.
https://www.texasobserver.org/2714-the-aclu-in-texas-the-early-years/

Schatzki was also vice president of the Texas Civil Liberties Union

     Ritter v. Matthews, Trs. (N. Texas State College.) (ED Tex., Sherman Div.) Aug. 30, 1962: Suit by Pl.-public school teacher against Def.-School Bd. testing discharge of Pl. for engaging in desegregation activities during nonwork time and off-campus, brought under 14th Amendment, 28 U.S.C. §1343(3) and (4), 42 U.S.C. §§1981, 1983. Case pending in ED after transfer from ND.
George Schatzki, and Albert Levy, Esqs., 1601 Natl. Bankers Life Bldg.; Marvin Menaker, Esq., Fidelity Union Life Bldg.; Herbert Landau, Esq., all of Dallas.


Bart,
There are 5 Documents at NARA pertaining to the Dallas Civil Liberties Union
1. AGENCY : HSCA
RECORD NUMBER : 180-10080-10007
RECORDS SERIES : NUMBERED FILES
AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 009445
DOCUMENT INFORMATION
ORIGINATOR : DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT
FROM : BIGGIE, W.S.
TO : GANNAWAY, W.P.
TITLE : DALLAS CHAPTER OF THE AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION
DATE : 04/30/1964
PAGES : 1
DOCUMENT TYPE : LETTER
SUBJECTS : AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION; DALLAS, TX
CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED
RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL
CURRENT STATUS : OPEN
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 07/24/1993
COMMENTS : Includes list of Dallas members. Box 173.

2. AGENCY : HSCA
RECORD NUMBER : 180-10104-10152
RECORDS SERIES : NUMBERED FILES
AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 012682
DOCUMENT INFORMATION
ORIGINATOR : DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT.
FROM : BIGGIO, W.S.
TO : GANNAWAY, W.P.
TITLE : [No Title]
DATE : 04/30/1964
PAGES : 1
DOCUMENT TYPE : LETTER.
SUBJECTS : DALLAS POLICE DEPARTMENT.; DALLAS CHAPTER OF THE
AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION.
CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED
RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL
CURRENT STATUS : OPEN
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 06/24/1993
COMMENTS : List of known members of the Dallas ALCU. Box 224.

3. AGENCY : WC
RECORD NUMBER : 179-40002-10161
RECORDS SERIES : 10: DALLAS CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION
DOCUMENT INFORMATION
ORIGINATOR : FBI
FROM : HOOVER, J. EDGAR
TO : RANKIN, J. LEE
TITLE : [No Title]
DATE : 03/13/1964
PAGES : 1
DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
SUBJECTS : MARTIN, JAMES; "THE WORKER"
CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED
RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED
CURRENT STATUS : POSTPONED IN FULL
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 00/00/0000
COMMENTS : COVER LETTER ENCLOSING COPY OF "THE WORKER"; BOX F06

4. AGENCY : NARA
RECORD NUMBER : 179-30001-10455
RECORDS SERIES : STATE AGENCIES AND PRIVATE ORGANIZATIONS AND PERSONS
DOCUMENT INFORMATION
ORIGINATOR : NARA
FROM : [No From]
TO : [No To]
TITLE : [No Title]
DATE : 00/00/0000
PAGES : 1
DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
SUBJECTS : DALLAS CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION; CD'S RECEIVED
CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED
RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL
CURRENT STATUS : OPEN
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 00/00/0000
COMMENTS : carbon copy

5. AGENCY : NARA
RECORD NUMBER : 179-30001-10456
RECORDS SERIES : NON-FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
DOCUMENT INFORMATION
ORIGINATOR : NARA
FROM : [No From]
TO : [No To]
TITLE : [No Title]
DATE : 00/00/0000
PAGES : 1
DOCUMENT TYPE : PAPER, TEXTUAL DOCUMENT
SUBJECTS : DALLAS CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION; CD'S RECEIVED
CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED
RESTRICTIONS : OPEN IN FULL
CURRENT STATUS : OPEN
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 00/00/0000
COMMENTS : 2 carbon copies

Our friend Hosty filed a report on Schatzki https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=117905

That is a beauty Greg!

What I was wondering was why some thought John Abt was an ACLU lawyer.
How was this impression garnered.
I thought it was a case Abt did for ACLU ... or with ACLU or some iteration.
I checked my memory and found the case,

LIGHTFOOT v. U.S.A
Abt argues the case, and ACLU filed the amicus brief.

AMICI CURIAE:ACLU Side
(Petitioner/Appellant)Opposing Side 
(Respondent/Appellee)Barent Ten Eyck filed a brief for the American Civil Liberties Union, as amicus curiae, urging reversal.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/355/2/
Of course J Lee Rankin argues for USA.

Cheers, Ed

amicus curiae:

an impartial adviser, often voluntary, to a court of law in a particular case.

"he was planning to advance this position in anamicus brief"

Ed. Ledoux wrote:That is a beauty Greg!

What I was wondering was why some thought John Abt was an ACLU lawyer.
How was this impression garnered.
I thought it was a case Abt did for ACLU ... or with ACLU or some iteration.
I checked my memory and found the case,

LIGHTFOOT v. U.S.A
Abt argues the case, and ACLU filed the amicus brief.

AMICI CURIAE:ACLU Side
(Petitioner/Appellant)Opposing Side 
(Respondent/Appellee)Barent Ten Eyck filed a brief for the American Civil Liberties Union, as amicus curiae, urging reversal.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/355/2/
Of course J Lee Rankin argues for USA.

Cheers, Ed
 

Glad you wondered that, Ed. This find answers more than one question and to my mind, confirms that the name was given to Oswald by Chuck Webster.

To explain:

this from wiki:

In January 1955 Abt defended Claude Lightfoot in Chicago, an African-American Communist on trial under the 1940 Smith Act for belonging to a group that advocates the overthrow of the US government. This trial marked the first time the government attempted to convict an individual solely as a member of a group conspiring against the nation, rather than for individual actions. Although Abt's short and simple defense did not succeed at this trial, Lightfoot's conviction was ultimately overturned by the US Supreme Court in 1964.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Abt

Lee to Marguerite
 "No, there is nothing you can do. Everything is fine. I know my rights, and I will have an attorney. I already requested to get in touch with Attorney Abt, I think is his name. Don't worry about a thing." 


To Marina
There are people who will help me. There is a lawyer in New York on whom I am counting for help.


The interrogation reports seem to suggest that Oswald knew all about Abt - that defend people against the Smith Act etc.

But when speaking to his mother, he doesn't even seem sure he has Abt's name right. He also tells Marina that "there are people who will help me".

Here's the thing -- the Lightfoot case marked a whole new ballgame - Lightfoot was being tried solely on the basis of membership of the CPUSA and nothing else (if I am reading it correctly?). The DPD was telling the media that Oswald admitted being a communist. By the time Abt came into the conversation (ignoring attempts to insert him earlier) conspiracy was off the table -- so Abt becomes a perfect choice for a lone nut commie. I don't believe Oswald knew anything about Abt -- but even if he did, there is next to no chance his knowledge was nuanced enough to know that the sole "applicable" case handled by Abt was for a "lone" communist. 

I can visualize it. 

Fritz: "Lee... we have a law professor present to aid in legal issues."

Webster: "I can arrange help for you Lee. A great New York Attorney named Abt is who you need. Defended Smith Act cases..."

Think about this: why would Oswald even want Abt on the basis of previously defending a member of the CPUSA against Smith Act charges?

Oswald was not a member of the CPUSA - or any other organization that might be subject to similar 
legal problems. It's nonsense.