Linnie Bags a Whopper

Fri 03 Feb 2017, 4:53 pm

First topic message reminder :

I feel compelled to revisit the rifle sack story and Linnie-Mae’s involvement in the creation of that and try and establish a chronology for the time shortly before and after the sack appeared out front the TSBD held aloft with some sort of stick or rod by a detective.

Also to try and establish the moments just prior to and after Linnie-Mae’s divulging of the news of a suspicious case or sack carried by Oswald that morning to detectives at Ruth Paines house.

In my opinion the suspicious sack is a complete fabrication – a creation used to assist in the framing of Oswald.
Crucially Randle’s timing of her telling police at the Paines house of that suspicious sack is at or about the same time the sack was seen outside the front steps of the TSBD.

I have come to believe Linnie Mae had prior knowledge of the sack which was to be “discovered” at the TSBD. I believe the sack we see in the photograph held aloft by the detective was planted by person/s unknown and definitely not planted on the sixth floor.

Jack Dougherty could be that person.

G. F. ROSE - R. S. STOVALL - J. P. ADAMCIK
REPORT ON INVESTIGATION OF THE PRESIDENT'S MURDER

On November 22, 1963, the date of the assassination of the President, Detectives G. F. Rose and R.S. Stovall arrived at the homicide Office at approximately 2:00 PM. This was as soon after the killing as we could get to the office. We were in the office about 10 or 15 minutes when at approximately 2:15 PM, Lee Harvey Oswald was brought into the Homicide Office. We (Rose and Stovall) talked to him briefly, obtaining his ID and name, and at about 2:30 PM Capt. Fritz, R. M. Sims, and E.L. Boyd came into the office. Capt. Fritz instructed Detectives Rose and Stovall to get one additional man and to go Irving, Texas, meet the County Officers and make a search of the house at 2515 West 5th, Irving. This was the house where Lee Oswald's wife lived with Ruth Paine, and Oswald stayed there on week ends. We took Detective J. P. Adamcik and immediately drove to 2515 West 5th, Irving and parked about one-half block from the Paine Home to await the arrival of the County Officers, after approximately a 40-minute wait, Detectives Harry H. Weatherford, E. W. (Buddy) Walthers, and J.L. Oxford of the Dallas County CID arrived. We instructed them of our mission and drove to the front of the Paine home. Detectives Adamcik and two of the County Officers went to the back door, and one county officer and Stovall and Rose went to the front door - time approximately 3:30 PM. Upon stepping onto the front porch, we heard the TV and see two people sitting in the living room. Ruth Paine answered our knock on the door. She was very cordial, and her first statement after we presented our ID, was "Come on in, we were expecting you. Just as soon as we heard where it happened, we figured someone would be out." She invited us

Rose-Stovall-Adamcik - Page 2
to make a search of her home at which time we began a methodical search of the house, for a list of items we took from the house see the attached property list. At approximately 3:45 PM Michael Ralph Paine walked up the walkway and entered the house without knocking. He told Ruth Paine "I heard where the President was shot, and I came right on over to see if I could be of any help to you." He also told her that he had just walked off the job. At the suggestion of Marina Oswald, wife of Lee Harvey Oswald, we also made a search of the garage, which is attached to the Paine home. Mrs. Oswald was asked about her husband's rifle, and she stated that he kept it in the garage wrapped in a blanket. She was speaking in Russian, and Ruth Paine was interpreting for us. She pointed to a rolled-up blanket laying on the garage floor, and said, "That is where he keeps his rifle". (in Russian, interpreted by Ruth Paine) Also see attached Property List. After some confusion as to what to do with the children, Ruth Paine agreed to accompany Marina Oswald to the City Hall, and we began loading the property that we were confiscating for evidence into our car and into the car of the Dallas County Sheriff's office. About this time Mrs. Bill Randall, who lives at 2439 West 5th, Irving, approached Det. Adamcik and told him that her brother Wesley Frazier took Oswald to work this morning, November 22, 1963, and that she saw Oswald carry something over to her brother's car and put it in the back seat. It was long and wrapped in paper or a box. She was suspicious. She said that her brother was visiting her father at Parkland Hospital, and we could reach him there.

Rose-Stovall-Adamcik - Page 3
We placed Michael Ralph Paine in the County Car, and Ruth Paine and Marina Oswald and her two small children into our car. We drove immediately to the City Hall and parked our car in the basement of the City Hall. We brought Michael Paine, Ruth Paine, Marina Oswald and her two small children to the third floor, Homicide and Robbery Bureau Office, and then after a few minutes moved them to the Forgery Bureau Office, due to the crowded condition of the Homicide Office, time approximately 6:00 PM. After getting the Paines and Mrs. Oswald settled and while waiting for an interpreter, we started trying to locate Wesley Frazier. We contacted Parkland and found that Wesley Frazier was not at Parkland Hospital. We made a check of the Irving Clinics and found out via phone that Wesley was at the Irving Professional Center visiting his father. Det Rose called the Irving Police Department and talked to Det. Mc Cabe, who stated that he would immediately go to the Irving Professional Center and take Wesley Frazier into custody and instructed us to call him back in 15 minutes to verify the arrest. We called Det. J. A. Mc Cabe back at about 6:45 PM, and ge informed us that he had effected the arrest of Wesley Frazier, and we could pick Frazier up at the Irving Police department. We (Dets. Rose and Stovall) drove immediately to Irving, arriving there at approximately 7:00PM. We talked to Det. Mc Cabe and he agreed to accompany us along with Wesley Frazier to the Irving Professional Center to make a search of Wesley Frazier's car, a 1954 black Chevrolet, 4 dr , License VK 3926. We made a thorough search of Frazier's car with negative results, the proceeded to Frazier's home, 2439 West 5th, Irving (1/2 block from the Paine home) and made a search of the Randle home (also Frazier home) and confiscated a 303 calibre rifle, full clip, and partial box 303 calibre ammunition belonging to Wesley Frazier (placed in Property Room).After a while Wesley Frazier's

Rose-Stovall-Adamcik - Page 4
sister, Linnie Randle, came in and she, Linnie Randle, Wesley Frazier and a Rev. Campble of the Irving Baptist Church, were brought to the City Hall, Homicide and Robbery Office, where affidavits were taken from Wesley Frazier and Linnie Randle - time approximately 9:00 PM. After finishing the affidavits, we (Dets. Rose and Stovall) started back to Irving, Texas, with the above witnesses. About midway we received a radio call to return to the office with the witnesses. We turned around at Irving Boulevard and Stemmons Expressway and drove back to City Hall, and Det. Rose called Capt. Fritz by telephone and Capt. Fritz asked that we run Wesley Frazier on the Polygraph machine. We took Frazier to the ID Bureau, and Capt. Dowdy called Det. R. D. Lewis at home. R. D. Lewis arrived on the fourth floor about 12:10 AM, 11-23-63. This examination showed conclusively that Wesley Frazier was truthful, and that the facts stated by Frazier in his affidavit were true (See his Affidavit). We took Frazier, his sister, and their minister home and got off duty at 2:00 AM.

G.F. Rose
R.S. Stovall
J.P. Adamcik

Tue 14 Feb 2017, 3:01 pm

The problem I have with JD being knowingly involved is that he failed to confirm Oswald entering with the bag. A perfect way to round off that job....but under pressure to do so was rather adamant that he saw nothing.

I do believe that JD and BRW saw one or more perpetrators (not Oswald) on the sixth floor. Williams about 5-10 minutes before and JD just after the shots. It was never established who the FBI guy was who told JD to find Truly. Was this before JD takes the west elevator down a minute after the last shot? Is this the same guy Rowland saw and Williams encountered?

Tue 14 Feb 2017, 3:06 pm

The problem I have with JD being knowingly involved is that he failed to confirm Oswald entering with the bag. A perfect way to round off that job....but under pressure to do so was rather adamant that he saw nothing.

Colin, I agree. It is at odds with a JD frame of Oswald.

I am tipping he was under instruction from his Boss Truly.

The only thing I can offer is that he may not have wanted to say "sure I saw Lee walk in with a large sack which could've had the rifle inside it" I'm sure he wouldn't want to admit to that after the fact. Especially in light of the way the investigation had proceeded.

IMO much the same way as Randle and Frazier had understated the length of the sack I'm sure JD had seen how that had worked for those two.

I don't know just guessing really.

Tue 14 Feb 2017, 3:40 pm

To be a fly on the wall after Frazier arrived home and talked with LMR. What those two (and the abusive hospitalised step-father) discussed for a few hours would be golden. Personally I don't believe LMR saw Oswald that morning. The carport was a giveaway and certainly the WC staff must have realised she made the story up to support her brother. We know there was communication between the cops at Paine's and police HQ. I wonder if the bag was mentioned from Fritz's office to them. Perhaps Adamcik mentioned to her if she saw a long package being carried? Then the curtain rod story was developed.

Tue 14 Feb 2017, 4:08 pm

Colin Crow wrote:To be a fly on the wall after Frazier arrived home and talked with LMR. What those two (and the abusive hospitalised step-father) discussed for a few hours would be golden. Personally I don't believe LMR saw Oswald that morning. The carport was a giveaway and certainly the WC staff must have realised she made the story up to support her brother. We know there was communication between the cops at Paine's and police HQ. I wonder if the bag was mentioned from Fritz's office to them. Perhaps Adamcik mentioned to her if she saw a long package being carried? Then the curtain rod story was developed.

Yep, agree totally. Just what those two got upto immediately after the assassination is unknown.

I agree Randle never did see Lee Friday morning, its pretty obvious imo from her statements and testimony and the reports.

Adamcik in his WC testimony confirms the Rose Stovall report regarding Linnie Mae's visit to dob in Lee, but I acknowledge that it still doesn't make the statements of theirs so. It (Adamcik's WC Testimony) certainly assists to corroborate the story of Randle paying the Paine houshold a visit and divulging the news of a long sack or box by Oswald which she regarded as suspicious.

Mr. ADAMCIK. Coming back, Mrs. Frazier, I believe it was, drove up to the house as I was coming back with--no, it was Mrs. Bill Randle. She (Mrs. Randle) was a neighbor there and she was driving up to the house, so I asked her whether she knew anything about what had happened, and whether she had seen Lee Oswald, and she did tell me that Lee Oswald rode to work with her brother, which is Wesley Frazier, who was staying with her, and he rode to work with him that morning. She told me that she saw--she was up early in the morning and was drinking coffee, and saw Lee Harvey Oswald go across the front yard, across the yard carrying like a long package wrapped in something, carrying it from the Paine house to Wesley's car.

Mr. BELIN. Did she say how he was carrying the package?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she didn't. I think we got an affidavit. In fact, I know we did, but I didn't take it.

Mr. BELIN. Did she say about how long the package was?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she said it was long and wrapped in a paper or a box.

Tue 14 Feb 2017, 4:46 pm

"Mrs Randle did you see Lee carrying any long package this morning?

That's all it would take.

Tue 14 Feb 2017, 7:06 pm

Mr. JOHNSON. I would say that the sack was folded up here and it was east of the pipes in the corner. To the best of my memory, that is where my partner picked it up. I was standing there when he picked it up.
Mr. BELIN. You were standing there when he picked it up?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, because the Crime Lab was already finished where I was, and I had already walked off to where he was.

The sack was not found until the crime lab (Studebaker) had finished where he was. He was guarding west of the SN where the pop bottle and lunch sack were. It was found after the pop bottle was finger printed. At teatime Johnson joined Montgomery in the SN.

This establishes the sequence for the official story is out of order. After Studebaker returned to the 6th from the first floor getting paper and tape for a bag that was not discovered yet. Day was not in the TSBD when the discovery took place.

Seek and ye shall find.

Tue 14 Feb 2017, 10:49 pm

Colin Crow wrote:The problem I have with JD being knowingly involved is that he failed to confirm Oswald entering with the bag. A perfect way to round off that job....but under pressure to do so was rather adamant that he saw nothing.

I do believe that JD and BRW saw one or more perpetrators (not Oswald) on the sixth floor. Williams about 5-10 minutes before and JD just after the shots. It was never established who the FBI guy was who told JD to find Truly. Was this before JD takes the west elevator down a minute after the last shot? Is this the same guy Rowland saw and Williams encountered?

I think JD would want nothing to do with a package if he was planting it. If he says he saw Oswald carry one it would implicate him more. IMO he was told to plant it and shut up. Which is what he did in his testimony.

Tue 14 Feb 2017, 11:20 pm

Paul wrote:I think JD would want nothing to do with a package if he was planting it. If he says he saw Oswald carry one it would implicate him more. IMO he was told to plant it and shut up. Which is what he did in his testimony.

He becomes an important witness and therefore subject to even lengthier questioning.

Just say you are Truly and loyal old JD really does have some emotional and/or personality/psychological or word disability, he may be ideal for duping into planting some evidence, but the last thing you'd want is for him to be involved with the investigators in any way shape or form, especially as a key witness.

Tue 14 Feb 2017, 11:24 pm

The sack known as CE 142 is dead as tank tops. It was made by Day and Studebaker.....see post above. Johnson sets the sequence beautifully in his WC testimony. It was discovered after Studebaker returned to the sixth floor, processed the pop bottle and paper sack. Johnson and Studebaker then went to where Montgomery was in the SN.

Why were Day and Studebaker getting "samples" at the wrapping table before 2pm when the bag was not discovered until well after. The jig is up. FBI planted/lied about Oswald's prints on the bag......

Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:10 am

What was JD doing up on the 5th or 6th whilst the assassination happened? Fair question, with not much chance of an accurate answer.

We can guess. He says he was alone. Noone publically that I know about has vouched for him.

As Paul has said, any other crime scene with this scenario would warrant a full investigation of what he was up to and why.

That never did happen, we all know why.

Wed 15 Feb 2017, 12:32 am

Jack had his uses. Conveniently it was him who took the west elevator down a minute or so after the shots while Truly and Baker ascend the stairs. But was it really Jack? Did it really leave from the 5th floor? Did the real assassin(s) descend instead? Such a crap investigation. There can be little doubt that the turd that was to become the official story was polished by Ball and Belin in their March sojourn to Dallas.

Wed 15 Feb 2017, 9:40 am

JD I'm sure had something to do with it but it's no fun speculating about him when we know fuck all about him. Not even a photo.

Wed 15 Feb 2017, 2:17 pm

Colin Crow wrote:The sack known as CE 142 is dead as tank tops. It was made by Day and Studebaker.....see post above. Johnson sets the sequence beautifully in his WC testimony. It was discovered after Studebaker returned to the sixth floor, processed the pop bottle and paper sack. Johnson and Studebaker then went to where Montgomery was in the SN.

Why were Day and Studebaker getting "samples" at the wrapping table before 2pm when the bag was not discovered until well after. The jig is up. FBI planted/lied about Oswald's prints on the bag......

Colin,
Just to clarify for my aching brain,

are you saying the cops in front of Lord knows who, made a sack in plain sight on the first, folded it took it up stairs to the sixth and planted/placed/deposited that bag on the 6th floor and then later introduced that bag into evidence.

This is presumably the same bag we see at 3.00pm outside the TSBD held by Montgomery.

Or have I got this all arse about, which is highly likely

Wed 15 Feb 2017, 2:23 pm

Paul Francisco Paso wrote:JD I'm sure had something to do with it but it's no fun speculating about him when we know fuck all about him. Not even a photo.

Man in the white T shirt, might well be JD, There are not a lot of other candidates other than Jack who would fit the bill IMO.

Ed's posts on this all but prove its gotta be him, unless I'm mistaken.

It could be a start.

I'm with you though it's no fun continually speculating (been enough of that shit for years) And yep, we know bugger all about him.

He should've at least in an honest investigation bee hauled in and held. He either was involved or witnessed those who might have been in setting up the planted evidence to frame Lee.

Wed 15 Feb 2017, 8:04 pm

E

Mick Purdy wrote:

Colin Crow wrote:The sack known as CE 142 is dead as tank tops. It was made by Day and Studebaker.....see post above. Johnson sets the sequence beautifully in his WC testimony. It was discovered after Studebaker returned to the sixth floor, processed the pop bottle and paper sack. Johnson and Studebaker then went to where Montgomery was in the SN.

Why were Day and Studebaker getting "samples" at the wrapping table before 2pm when the bag was not discovered until well after. The jig is up. FBI planted/lied about Oswald's prints on the bag......

Colin,
Just to clarify for my aching brain,

are you saying the cops in front of Lord knows who, made a sack in plain sight on the first, folded it took it up stairs to the sixth and planted/placed/deposited that bag on the 6th floor and then later introduced that bag into evidence.

This is presumably the same bag we see at 3.00pm outside the TSBD held by Montgomery.

Or have I got this all arse about, which is highly likely

Mick,

Here is a Pat Speer piece that adresses the problems with the bag and the link to the timing of LMR talking to the cops.

I have only just come across it but it is consistent with what I have come across independently.

http://www.patspeer.com/chapter-4c

Thu 23 Feb 2017, 2:46 pm

Colin Crow wrote:E

Mick Purdy wrote:

Colin Crow wrote:The sack known as CE 142 is dead as tank tops. It was made by Day and Studebaker.....see post above. Johnson sets the sequence beautifully in his WC testimony. It was discovered after Studebaker returned to the sixth floor, processed the pop bottle and paper sack. Johnson and Studebaker then went to where Montgomery was in the SN.

Why were Day and Studebaker getting "samples" at the wrapping table before 2pm when the bag was not discovered until well after. The jig is up. FBI planted/lied about Oswald's prints on the bag......

Colin,
Just to clarify for my aching brain,

are you saying the cops in front of Lord knows who, made a sack in plain sight on the first, folded it took it up stairs to the sixth and planted/placed/deposited that bag on the 6th floor and then later introduced that bag into evidence.

This is presumably the same bag we see at 3.00pm outside the TSBD held by Montgomery.

Or have I got this all arse about, which is highly likely

Mick,

Here is a Pat Speer piece that adresses the problems with the bag and the link to the timing of LMR talking to the cops.

I have only just come across it but it is consistent with what I have come across independently.

http://www.patspeer.com/chapter-4c

Thanks Colin.

Thu 23 Feb 2017, 2:52 pm

Linnie Mae's Friday morning view of the sack malarkey:

Thu 23 Feb 2017, 11:45 pm

The absolute best is,

Mr. BELIN. Was there anything inside the bag, if you know, when you found it?
Mr. DAY. I did not open the bag. I did not look inside of the bag at all.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do with the bag after you found it and you put this writing on after you dusted it?
Mr. DAY. I released it to the FBI agent.
Mr. BELIN. Did you take it down to the station with you?
Mr. DAY. I didn't take it with me. I left it with the men when I left. I left Detectives Hicks and Studebaker to bring this in with them when they brought other equipment in.
Mr. BELIN. By this you are referring to the bag itself?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

A close second is this whopper...

And it's even worse than that. Truly was interviewed for an 11-27-63 article by Dom Bonafede in the New York Herald-Tribune. According to this article, Truly told Bonafede that Oswald "was seen carrying a large object wrapped in newspapers (presumably the murder weapon) into the warehouse the morning of the assassination." Wait. Newspapers? Huh? If Day had shown the paper bag found in the building to Truly on the day of the assassination, and had asked him to supply paper and tape samples from the building for comparison, wouldn't Truly have remembered such a thing but 4 days later?

Quite astounding that Truly would confuse newspapers for the company wrapping paper!!!
Only happened because their was no found bag, no Oswald rifle, no carrying in of said rifle in said bag that didn't exist till... till someone told them they had seen a bag. Linnie or Wes?

And if Johnson and or Montgomery have the evidence from the sixth floor in their hands as they leave the TSBD... where is the box top?
Linnie Bags a Whopper - Page 6 Whiteliesfixed2

Linnie Bags a Whopper - Page 6 Whiteliesfixed2

I studied the box and the cardboard piece appears to be resting on it
and does not fill in a torn or cut section.
The piece seems to be from another source or box not the SN "seat" box.
Is this equal to the shells Sims was "told" he had carried around in his pocket all day.
So where is the piece of cardboard? In a pocket????
Linnie Bags a Whopper - Page 6 2Q==

Cant carry rifle in a sack as it will smudge prints.
And recall the sack had not been processed on the inside per Day...yet here is ~~numb nuts~~ the Detective carrying out an unfolded and opened sack!

Linnie Bags a Whopper - Page 6 Z

The help would come from Linnie at 2:30.

I then stumbled upon another reason to doubt the 3:30 time of arrival proposed by detectives Rose, Adamcik, and Stovall. While watching a video of Buell Wesley Frazier's 3-27-13 appearance at the Irving Central Library, one of the questions from the audience rang out like a bell. What, a man asked, led the police to come out to Irving so quickly? This man's wife was friends with Frazier's niece, Diana, and she remembered seeing the police talking to Frazier's family (presumably Frazier's sister Linnie Mae Randle) when she walked home from school at...gulp...2:30. Well, there it is again.
So why would they lie about this? Let's go back. We know Montgomery claimed he took the bag out of the building at 2:30, when photos show it was really about 3:00. And we now have reason to suspect Adamcik, Rose, and Stovall claimed they'd first approached the Paine house around 3:30, when they almost certainly came to the door around 2:30. Well, think about it. If they found the bag shortly before 2:30, but didn't know Oswald had been carrying a bag until after 3:30, when Linnie Mae Randle came over to tell them about it, the bag unseen by nearly everyone to view the sniper's nest prior to 2:30 would appear to be legit. But if they removed a bag from the building at 3:00, after being told of a bag's existence around 2:30, well, then, that's a problem. A big problem. Heck, it could even be that Montgomery, Johnson, and Studebaker made the bag to show Linnie Randle--that is, to see if a bag made from materials contained within the building resembled the bag she saw in Oswald's possession-

The fix was in early on Oswald that is for sure.
The priest made sure a Linnie Mae whopper was a lie for good purposes, and turning a lunch sack into a rifle case against an guilty godless commie is fine with the lord and St Peter.
Now, since we are correcting the times given, when was it Wes left the building and called his sister...

Cheers, Ed
.

Fri 24 Feb 2017, 7:23 am

Mick Purdy wrote:

Mick,you have cracked the Prayer Man riddle. That's the real Linnie-Mae on the left. We need to work out who the short dumpy plain impostor is on the right. But more importantly, the emergence of a second Linnie-Mae can only mean there must have been two Buell's - which means that "BUell" cannot tell us who PM is because he knows it's his own shorter Hillbilly speaking CIA-created doppelganger!

Fri 24 Feb 2017, 7:34 am

Ed wrote:I then stumbled upon another reason to doubt the 3:30 time of arrival proposed by detectives Rose, Adamcik, and Stovall. While watching a video of Buell Wesley Frazier's 3-27-13 appearance at the Irving Central Library, one of the questions from the audience rang out like a bell. What, a man asked, led the police to come out to Irving so quickly? This man's wife was friends with Frazier's niece, Diana, and she remembered seeing the police talking to Frazier's family (presumably Frazier's sister Linnie Mae Randle) when she walked home from school at...gulp...2:30. Well, there it is again.
So why would they lie about this? Let's go back. We know Montgomery claimed he took the bag out of the building at 2:30, when photos show it was really about 3:00. And we now have reason to suspect Adamcik, Rose, and Stovall claimed they'd first approached the Paine house around 3:30, when they almost certainly came to the door around 2:30. Well, think about it. If they found the bag shortly before 2:30, but didn't know Oswald had been carrying a bag until after 3:30, when Linnie Mae Randle came over to tell them about it, the bag unseen by nearly everyone to view the sniper's nest prior to 2:30 would appear to be legit. But if they removed a bag from the building at 3:00, after being told of a bag's existence around 2:30, well, then, that's a problem. A big problem. Heck, it could even be that Montgomery, Johnson, and Studebaker made the bag to show Linnie Randle--that is, to see if a bag made from materials contained within the building resembled the bag she saw in Oswald's possession-

The fix was in early on Oswald that is for sure.
The priest made sure a Linnie Mae whopper was a lie for good purposes, and turning a lunch sack into a rifle case against an guilty godless commie is fine with the lord and St Peter.
Now, since we are correcting the times given, when was it Wes left the building and called his sister...

Cheers, Ed

Even if this turned out to be wrong (and I think it may not be), it would still qualify as brilliant reasoning and investigative work.

Fri 24 Feb 2017, 10:15 am

I then stumbled upon another reason to doubt the 3:30 time of arrival proposed by detectives Rose, Adamcik, and Stovall. While watching a video of Buell Wesley Frazier's 3-27-13 appearance at the Irving Central Library, one of the questions from the audience rang out like a bell. What, a man asked, led the police to come out to Irving so quickly? This man's wife was friends with Frazier's niece, Diana, and she remembered seeing the police talking to Frazier's family (presumably Frazier's sister Linnie Mae Randle) when she walked home from school at...gulp...2:30. Well, there it is again.
So why would they lie about this? Let's go back. We know Montgomery claimed he took the bag out of the building at 2:30, when photos show it was really about 3:00. And we now have reason to suspect Adamcik, Rose, and Stovall claimed they'd first approached the Paine house around 3:30, when they almost certainly came to the door around 2:30. Well, think about it. If they found the bag shortly before 2:30, but didn't know Oswald had been carrying a bag until after 3:30, when Linnie Mae Randle came over to tell them about it, the bag unseen by nearly everyone to view the sniper's nest prior to 2:30 would appear to be legit. But if they removed a bag from the building at 3:00, after being told of a bag's existence around 2:30, well, then, that's a problem. A big problem. Heck, it could even be that Montgomery, Johnson, and Studebaker made the bag to show Linnie Randle--that is, to see if a bag made from materials contained within the building resembled the bag she saw in Oswald's possession-

It doesn't take much, but you've made my day Ed.

Oh how I would love that timeline to be accurate. I could pack up and go home.

This will be my timeline of reference from now on until proved otherwise. Very Happy

I actually seriously believe its close to on the money.

Brilliant post as always mate.

Fri 24 Feb 2017, 10:39 am

greg parker wrote:

Mick Purdy wrote:

Mick,you have cracked the Prayer Man riddle. That's the real Linnie-Mae on the left. We need to work out who the short dumpy plain impostor is on the right. But more importantly, the emergence of a second Linnie-Mae can only mean there must have been two Buell's - which means that "BUell" cannot tell us who PM is because he knows it's his own shorter Hillbilly speaking CIA-created doppelganger!

Thanks Greg, I'm glad to have helped. Now we can all go home.

Here's the CIA created second Linnie Mae

Similar I would've thought.

Not such a great job with Frazier however

Fri 24 Feb 2017, 2:48 pm

According to the WC testimony of Adamcik and the Rose - Stovall report and Stovall’s WC testimony, Randle drove over to the Paine house while police were there on the afternoon of November 22.
Detective Stovall testified that she told him "that her brother had taken Oswald to work that morning and she said that she had seen him put some kind of a package in the back seat of her brother's car. She told us it could have been a rifle is what she said" (7H191 emphasis added).

http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/html/WC_Vol7_0100a.htm

She also stated on the day of the assassination that the bag was "approximately 3 feet by 6 inches" (Commission Document 5, p. 320).

Randle later participated in a simulation with an FBI agent walking toward her kitchen window as Oswald had, and estimated the bag to be 27 inches long. She then stuck with that estimate (Commission Document 7, pp. 298-9).

On the day of the assassination she stated to the FBI that "the Dallas Police Department had exhibited to her some brown package paper, however she had not been able to positively identify it as being identical with the above-mentioned brown package, due to the fact she had only observed the brown package from her residence window at a distance"

(Commission Document 5, p. 320, emphasis added).

Fri 24 Feb 2017, 3:24 pm

Ed. Ledoux wrote:The absolute best is,

Mr. BELIN. Was there anything inside the bag, if you know, when you found it?
Mr. DAY. I did not open the bag. I did not look inside of the bag at all.
Mr. BELIN. What did you do with the bag after you found it and you put this writing on after you dusted it?
Mr. DAY. I released it to the FBI agent.
Mr. BELIN. Did you take it down to the station with you?
Mr. DAY. I didn't take it with me. I left it with the men when I left. I left Detectives Hicks and Studebaker to bring this in with them when they brought other equipment in.
Mr. BELIN. By this you are referring to the bag itself?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir.

A close second is this whopper...

And it's even worse than that. Truly was interviewed for an 11-27-63 article by Dom Bonafede in the New York Herald-Tribune. According to this article, Truly told Bonafede that Oswald "was seen carrying a large object wrapped in newspapers (presumably the murder weapon) into the warehouse the morning of the assassination." Wait. Newspapers? Huh? If Day had shown the paper bag found in the building to Truly on the day of the assassination, and had asked him to supply paper and tape samples from the building for comparison, wouldn't Truly have remembered such a thing but 4 days later?

Quite astounding that Truly would confuse newspapers for the company wrapping paper!!!
Only happened because their was no found bag, no Oswald rifle, no carrying in of said rifle in said bag that didn't exist till... till someone told them they had seen a bag. Linnie or Wes?

And if Johnson and or Montgomery have the evidence from the sixth floor in their hands as they leave the TSBD... where is the box top?

I studied the box and the cardboard piece appears to be resting on it
and does not fill in a torn or cut section.
The piece seems to be from another source or box not the SN "seat" box.
Is this equal to the shells Sims was "told" he had carried around in his pocket all day.
So where is the piece of cardboard? In a pocket????

Cant carry rifle in a sack as it will smudge prints.
And recall the sack had not been processed on the inside per Day...yet here is ~~numb nuts~~ the Detective carrying out an unfolded and opened sack!

The help would come from Linnie at 2:30.

I then stumbled upon another reason to doubt the 3:30 time of arrival proposed by detectives Rose, Adamcik, and Stovall. While watching a video of Buell Wesley Frazier's 3-27-13 appearance at the Irving Central Library, one of the questions from the audience rang out like a bell. What, a man asked, led the police to come out to Irving so quickly? This man's wife was friends with Frazier's niece, Diana, and she remembered seeing the police talking to Frazier's family (presumably Frazier's sister Linnie Mae Randle) when she walked home from school at...gulp...2:30. Well, there it is again.
So why would they lie about this? Let's go back. We know Montgomery claimed he took the bag out of the building at 2:30, when photos show it was really about 3:00. And we now have reason to suspect Adamcik, Rose, and Stovall claimed they'd first approached the Paine house around 3:30, when they almost certainly came to the door around 2:30. Well, think about it. If they found the bag shortly before 2:30, but didn't know Oswald had been carrying a bag until after 3:30, when Linnie Mae Randle came over to tell them about it, the bag unseen by nearly everyone to view the sniper's nest prior to 2:30 would appear to be legit. But if they removed a bag from the building at 3:00, after being told of a bag's existence around 2:30, well, then, that's a problem. A big problem. Heck, it could even be that Montgomery, Johnson, and Studebaker made the bag to show Linnie Randle--that is, to see if a bag made from materials contained within the building resembled the bag she saw in Oswald's possession-

The fix was in early on Oswald that is for sure.
The priest made sure a Linnie Mae whopper was a lie for good purposes, and turning a lunch sack into a rifle case against an guilty godless commie is fine with the lord and St Peter.
Now, since we are correcting the times given, when was it Wes left the building and called his sister...

Cheers, Ed
.

Ed,

I know not everyone here buys into this timeline.

I do however, because it goes a long way (for me) in making sense of the many reports and the WC hearings telling us that the cops were informed of a bag/sack/box early afternoon by Randle, and reported it as being suspicious, and carried to work by none other than Lee Oswald.

Would this information not be passed onto investigating police, police at the scene of the alleged crime scene.

I don't even give pause with that thought. Of course they would have.

The police were out at Irving too quick for my reckoning. Its not a stretch to think Randle was waiting in the wings ready to pounce with the good news about a suspicious sack, the sack she just happened to see that morning, carried by the guy who just happened to be in custody downtown.

The sack she had no right to claim as suspicious if as her testimony states she was aware that curtain rods were the items within the night before the assassination.

No Ed, I think with your help this is slowly unravelling. The timeline on these events is important, key.

I am highly suspicious of Randle, I believe I have good reason.

Fri 24 Feb 2017, 3:34 pm

Mick,

an early arrival at the Paines may also account for how the cops got to boarding house so quick.

On Linnie... how far again was it between the Pain and Randle houses? Would she really drive that short distance, or did she arrive from somewhere else?

Linnie Bags a Whopper

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