Reality Checks
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JeremyBojczuk
Jake_Sykes
JonathanCohen
steely_dan
barto
Roger Odisio
Vinny
lanceman
alex_wilson
greg_parker
14 posters
Reality Checks
Thu 13 Apr 2023, 12:51 pm
https://www.tracesofwar.com/articles/4916/Skorzeny-Otto.htm wrote:Odessa must therefore be seen as an all encompassing description of various regional groups, rather than as one entity with a clearly defined program. The real purpose of these various organizations like Odessa, the Spinne and Stille Hilfe (silent aid) was not the establishment of a Nazi international movement but rendering aid and support to evade arrest and to have the necessary means at hand in order to survive. It entailed things like forging identity papers, providing shelter and assistance to get members across borders. There may have been of course international meetings of former members of the SS and SD with impossibly far reaching ambitions. Whatever it is, as is often the case with myths, in the long run they tend to start leading their own lives. For instance in the 50s, journalistic concoctions made the Spandau prisoners go crazy. According to rumors at the time, Skorzeny would have attempted to liberate the prisoners in Spandau using two helicopters and a hundred men. At the same time, a coup would take place and a new government installed, headed by Karl Dönitz (Bio Dönitz). The danger posed by these clandestine organizations of former SS members is rather exaggerated. It may well be Allied intelligence services may have considered them for years as a potential nucleus of a rebirth of Nazism, seen from the paranoid spirit at the time.
----
Apart from misplaced romantics of war, it can be argued that Skorzeny has evolved into an icon of irregular warfare from which lessons have been drawn for the post war period also. The importance of a man like Skorzeny lies in the political-military powers of invention on the battlefield casting doubt on the conventional military way of thinking. However, Skorzeny remains a dark figure of whom it cannot be determined what to put on his record and what not. There is nothing else to do than add question marks and annotations to parts of some conspiracy theories.
https://warriormaven.com/history/nazi-commando-otto-skorzeny-continued-his-life-of-intrigue-after-the-war-1 wrote:With so many ex-Nazis living in Spain, Skorzeny tried to find employment with them. His American handler wrote reports of the former commando trying to work with aircraft designer Willi Messerschmitt and steel tycoon Otto Wolff, but little happened.
He kept talking about his plan to reform the German army to almost anyone who would listen. Despite his special forces experience, Skorzeny couldn’t keep his mouth shut. He spoke of preparing 200,000 men to defend Germany from the Soviets and claimed the Americans backed his efforts. The CIA knew of the plan but worried about a reformation of the Third Reich and provided nothing.
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Through the 1950s Skorzeny remained involved with right wing organizations and often worked with other S.S. veterans, but his reputation as the mastermind of a secret Nazi society was exaggerated. He took a job as an “import-export manager” in Spain and traveled widely, including visits to Egypt and Argentina. Rumors he slept with Eva Peron proved false. She died two years before he ever set foot there.
In Egypt he secretly tried to sell arms and become a military advisor to Gamal Abdel Nasser, but again little came of it. His presence in Cairo caused a stir just the same and even caused British intelligence to worry he was training Egyptian paratroopers to seize the Suez Canal. His only real successes during this time came with his alleged cover story — he got contracts signed on several concrete and steel sales. This brought in some $260,000 over the next several years, equivalent to over $2 million today.
By the 1960s the aging Skorzeny continued to dabble in arms sales, increasing his fortune. His reputation meant his name circulated wherever intrigue occurred, such as during the kidnapping of Adolph Eichmann. He met with Israeli agents during the 1960s, but as with so much about Skorzeny, we know few details.
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/343438616.pdf wrote:All mentioned aspects offer evidence, that Skorzeny’s narrative and his conduct of Unternehmen Eiche may be exaggerated. But, NS-propaganda made him to the recognizable commando and therefore, this section will also focus on the presentation of Unternehmen Eiche. The propaganda about Skorzeny was not preplanned, but fitted perfectly into the narrative, which was needed at the time. The existing German military capability to conduct these types of operations and the still existing bravery should be shown to German citizens and Germany’s opponents. Also, the SS-member, Otto Skorzeny was depicted and still perceived as the ideal German soldier, who fights although circumstances may be difficult. Goebbels himself stated in his diary, that he wanted to eradicate varying narratives about Mussolini’s liberation, a decision that continues to influence how many perceive Otto Skorzeny’s role during Unternehmen Eiche.
These details reveal that Skorzeny was unable to plan and conduct a mission with special paratrooper equipment like gliders at Gran Sasso because of his lack of experience and knowledge about these issues. Furthermore, his men were also incapable of conducting this mission alone. Skorzeny never commanded an engaged unit in Italy except z.b.V. Friedenthal, but cooperated and supported with those, which were tasked. Nevertheless, he was there at Gran Sasso and did play a role in the bloodless rescue of Mussolini and therefore, Skorzeny was used strategically by NS-propaganda to demonstrate German military strength and to inspire the German peoples’ belief in their nation’s victory.
Skorzeny was the archetypal cartoon Nazi villian - a perfect foil for a Dudley Doorite type character.
He was in the right places and had the right look and personality to be elevated in stature and heroics for propaganda purposes. He would spend the rest of his life parlaying the legends created about him, into a comfortable and intersting existence. Today, he would have made a great travel vlogger.
Unfortunately, as with the asssassination, gaps in knowledge regarding Skorzeny get filled with more legend-building - and it was only a matter of time before that ever-growing legend nudged its way into assassination lore.
What a fucking clusterfuck.
Where's Dudley Doorite when you really need him?
_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise.
Lachie Hulme
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
Me
"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." Don Jeffries
"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott
https://gregrparker.com
Re: Reality Checks
Thu 13 Apr 2023, 2:52 pm
Leslie Sharp wrote:The vehement resistance to Hank's investigation by some — including active members on Ed Forum — is perplexing to say the least.
LOL. Good one, Leslie.
Gosh, I haven't been this perplexed since Stevie Gaal got upset when I replied to a comment he made about someone named Polly with "Polly want a cracker!"
He preported me claiming I was insinuating he was "cracker". Not a term used in Oz. And what's more, he had to explain why it upset him to Lord Gordo because it is also not a term used in Merry Olde England. It resulted in my final expulsion.
Looking through old threats for that conversation, I now realise just how fucked up that place is.
The same term has been used many times, with no issues.
It's time to play.... Pick That Nose!
David Josephs replied to Greg Parker's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
... Polly want a cracker?
August 26, 2015 120 replies
David Josephs
Harvey and Lee
David Josephs replied to Dawn Meredith's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
...edu/cdm/ref/collection/po-arm/id/27534 (Ed Voebel) Polly want a cracker....
March 17, 2014 124 replies
Craig Lamson
The Backyard Photos
Craig Lamson replied to William Kelly's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
... Polly wanna cracker?
August 13, 2010 155 replies
Craig Lamson
The Present State of Doug Horne's Evidence
Craig Lamson replied to Josiah Thompson's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
... Polly wanna cracker?
August 7, 2010 120 replies
Craig Lamson
In Defense of Fetzer
Craig Lamson replied to Greg Burnham's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
polly wanna cracker...
August 5, 2010 23 replies
Craig Lamson
In Defense of Fetzer
Craig Lamson replied to Greg Burnham's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Polly wanna cracker?
August 4, 2010 23 replies
Guest
Moon Myth Disinformation
Guest replied to Evan Burton's topic in The Apollo Moon Landings
...2009 Bart Sibrel "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon Polly wanna cracker?
August 4, 2010 118 replies
Craig Lamson
In Defense of Fetzer
Craig Lamson replied to Greg Burnham's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Polly wanna cracker?
August 3, 2010 23 replies
Craig Lamson
History Lost: Test of Zapruder fakery doomed
Craig Lamson replied to Greg Burnham's topic in JFK Assassination Debate
Very true Polly wanna cracker?
August 2, 2010 177 replies
Craig Lamson
Apollo whistleblower revealed at last!
Craig Lamson replied to Dave Greer's topic in The Apollo Moon Landings
...( polly wanna cracker?) BTW, exactly what is it I am wrong about here? I've just asked you a few questions. You are the one posting conflicting claims.
February 11, 2008 97 replies
Craig Lamson
Apollo whistleblower revealed at last!
Craig Lamson replied to Dave Greer's topic in The Apollo Moon Landings
...You say you are a researcher ( polly wanna cracker?), why not act like one.? First you wanted proof than the 500 page report existed and now you want proof that it was submitted ? ... Why don't you just admit that you know nothing about this subject and got caught on that fact . I simply want to...
February 11, 2008 97 replies
Craig Lamson
Interesting Apollo Picture (Small Astronaut)
Craig Lamson replied to Gavin Stone's topic in The Apollo Moon Landings
... Polly wanna cracker?
January 13, 2008 80 replies
Craig Lamson
Photographic Challenge
Craig Lamson replied to Jack White's topic in The Apollo Moon Landings
...mainly " polly wanna cracker?" You could have something of value to contribute if you actually took the time to study the issue ansd perfrom a few simple tests. It speaks volumes about you that you are willing to just believe anything because it fits your warped worldview. Try the tests and learn s...
January 9, 2008 130 replies
Had forgotten about this thread. What a hoot!
https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22151-its-time-to-play-pick-that-nose/
To tie this all together... I have no doubt that John Pierre Lafitte put on his eypatch every morning and asked his parrot, Polly, if she wanted a cracker...before opening his datebook for the day...
_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise.
Lachie Hulme
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
Me
"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." Don Jeffries
"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott
https://gregrparker.com
- alex_wilson
- Posts : 1333
Join date : 2019-04-10
Re: Reality Checks
Fri 14 Apr 2023, 1:12 am
Coup in Dallas is to Cold War history what the Travels of Sir John de Mandeville was to travel writing
Or what The Golden Legend is to an empirical history of late medieval Europe.
It is nothing more than a compendium, a grimoire even, of the wildest excesses of Nazi exploitation shlock mythology, with a hefty garnish of revisionist fantasy.
I don't understand how such a book; built upon a foundation of historical quicksand, could ever possibly hope to elucidate or enlighten, much less assist in the continued search for historical truth.
What does it say about the rest of the book( leaving aside the controversy surrounding the alleged datebook) when an important prop, ie the biography of the main antagonist, is nothing more than a useless worm eaten lump of rotten timber?
What does it say about the reliability and authenticity of the controversial ( and virtually unproveable) claims when the relatively uncontroversial, easily proveable claims have been shown to be completely unreliable?
The book was designed for those who exist within the conspiracy bubble.
As history it's less than worthless. Anyone who takes the hoary old con trick , " the Priory of Sion " remotely seriously , shouldn't, imho, be attempting to write serious history.
The Priory of Sion serves as a perfect metaphor , illustrating the utter impossibility of reasoning with those whose basic cognitive abilities have atrophied, due to their extended exposure to fundamentalist conspiracism.
" But the so called " Dossiers Secrete" were forged"
" Don't be a gullible sheeple, WAKE UP, they were faked by the CIA to make it look like they were forged "
" But Plantard himself admitted he created the Priory to embellish his fanciful genealogical claims to the Merovingian dynasty "
" Well, he would say that, wouldn't he? Not being particularly eager to " commit suicide " via " CIA shotgun ""
What's the point? Where's the fucking progress? Attempting to replace a counterfeit history with one that's equally, if not more factually challenged ?
A choice between two separate lies is no choice at all. That's why the vast majority of alternative history is just as debased and useless as the vast majority of mainstream history
Both sides rely upon flawed material to reach flawed conclusions. Guided by, while, at the very same time, being blinded by their specific ideologies.
History is only as real as the facts which make it, and the society that absorbs it's lessons as primordial truths. More than ever history is being transformed into the battlefield for the soul of the future.
Each side trying to use " history " as their justification for increasingly unjustifiable acts
Sorry for the mini rant folks, but books like this really annoy me.
Just because you stick a couple of rusty coathangers under your coat and call them wings doesn't automatically mean you're on the side of the angels.
All facts, and all factual sources/ purveyors of facts must be treated equally. On their own merits.
Or what The Golden Legend is to an empirical history of late medieval Europe.
It is nothing more than a compendium, a grimoire even, of the wildest excesses of Nazi exploitation shlock mythology, with a hefty garnish of revisionist fantasy.
I don't understand how such a book; built upon a foundation of historical quicksand, could ever possibly hope to elucidate or enlighten, much less assist in the continued search for historical truth.
What does it say about the rest of the book( leaving aside the controversy surrounding the alleged datebook) when an important prop, ie the biography of the main antagonist, is nothing more than a useless worm eaten lump of rotten timber?
What does it say about the reliability and authenticity of the controversial ( and virtually unproveable) claims when the relatively uncontroversial, easily proveable claims have been shown to be completely unreliable?
The book was designed for those who exist within the conspiracy bubble.
As history it's less than worthless. Anyone who takes the hoary old con trick , " the Priory of Sion " remotely seriously , shouldn't, imho, be attempting to write serious history.
The Priory of Sion serves as a perfect metaphor , illustrating the utter impossibility of reasoning with those whose basic cognitive abilities have atrophied, due to their extended exposure to fundamentalist conspiracism.
" But the so called " Dossiers Secrete" were forged"
" Don't be a gullible sheeple, WAKE UP, they were faked by the CIA to make it look like they were forged "
" But Plantard himself admitted he created the Priory to embellish his fanciful genealogical claims to the Merovingian dynasty "
" Well, he would say that, wouldn't he? Not being particularly eager to " commit suicide " via " CIA shotgun ""
What's the point? Where's the fucking progress? Attempting to replace a counterfeit history with one that's equally, if not more factually challenged ?
A choice between two separate lies is no choice at all. That's why the vast majority of alternative history is just as debased and useless as the vast majority of mainstream history
Both sides rely upon flawed material to reach flawed conclusions. Guided by, while, at the very same time, being blinded by their specific ideologies.
History is only as real as the facts which make it, and the society that absorbs it's lessons as primordial truths. More than ever history is being transformed into the battlefield for the soul of the future.
Each side trying to use " history " as their justification for increasingly unjustifiable acts
Sorry for the mini rant folks, but books like this really annoy me.
Just because you stick a couple of rusty coathangers under your coat and call them wings doesn't automatically mean you're on the side of the angels.
All facts, and all factual sources/ purveyors of facts must be treated equally. On their own merits.
_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III
Bosworth Field 1485
Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963
For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging
" To answer your question I ALWAYS look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen From his soon to be published self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day Foreword Vince Palamara)
" Once you prove Davidson's woman's face then Stanton's breasts follow naturally " Brian Doyle
Re: Reality Checks
Sat 22 Jul 2023, 12:33 pm
Leslie talks shit with Roger:
Unlike you Leslie, if we ever get the 2 films in question to be sent where they belong in the archives, then the needed scans will be done at arms length by professionals. They will show definitively if it is Oswald or some random dude,.
It sounds to me, like you are simply flagging your intention to cry foul when and if we ever get this done.
I mean, what exactly is your end-game?
If the datebook is authentic then you are with-holding evidence in a major crime. Why haven't you forwarded the datebook to the FBI? Who exactly deputized you? No one. Your end game is the thrilll of being the one to solve "whodunit" , maybe joined with a book profit motive. Who, apart from suckers with hard-earned cash to buy your book, are you trying to convince?
What does not inspire confidence in your judgement is that you continue to support a provable grifter in Ganis and his Skorzeny "diary" that was purchased from what he claims was a reputable auction house, but which I tracked down to being Alexander Auctions who are internationally known for selling fake Nazi memorabilia.
As for "reasonable minds" - that is nothing but a plea for everyone to suspend disbelief. Not gonna happen, darlin'. We may be far from perfect, but at least we are aware of the need for critical thinking, and trying to maintain it.
Talk about projection. No Sweetie, "self-preservation" is avoidance of sending it to the FBI, or at minimum, getting it scientifically and independently authenticated - by people or organizations you are actually willing to name.
But you have hit on the crux of your calumny. It has nothing to do with "blurry" images or being a "distraction". It has everything to do with PM eviscerating the guts of your game of Nazi Conspiracy Bingo.
For starters, forums and social media have the options of blocking such people. But no - Les has these "victims" of bullying not only taking no action against the "bullies", she has them complying with the purpose of said bullying, Les has a very low opinion of the brainpower of her fellow "researchers."
Perhaps instead, she will start claiming all of these "distracted" researchers are actually victims of ROKC mind control? I would not put it past the poor desperate dear.
And anyway, who the fuck is Shane?
Ho hum. Since Soutre wasn't there, then yep. Photoshopped.LS I believe, after sixty years, there are millions of citizens who will never be convinced Oswald wasn't the lone shooter regardless of photo images to the contrary. I appreciate that is not a popular stance among the Prayer Man movement, and I accept that similarly and at this juncture, if we capture photos of Jean Souetre and the teams who did kill JFK, we will then be confronted with cries of PHOTOSHOP! (which no doubt you know will be hurled at improved images purportedly originating in the Wiegman and or Darnell films).
Unlike you Leslie, if we ever get the 2 films in question to be sent where they belong in the archives, then the needed scans will be done at arms length by professionals. They will show definitively if it is Oswald or some random dude,.
It sounds to me, like you are simply flagging your intention to cry foul when and if we ever get this done.
It is patently absurd for anyone but the proper authorities to do it, darlin'.LS The suggestion that identifying who did kill JFK is a distraction is patently absurd, imo. It is possible that our pursuits might converge if only we were dealing with a collective of reasonable minds modeled on your own.
I mean, what exactly is your end-game?
If the datebook is authentic then you are with-holding evidence in a major crime. Why haven't you forwarded the datebook to the FBI? Who exactly deputized you? No one. Your end game is the thrilll of being the one to solve "whodunit" , maybe joined with a book profit motive. Who, apart from suckers with hard-earned cash to buy your book, are you trying to convince?
What does not inspire confidence in your judgement is that you continue to support a provable grifter in Ganis and his Skorzeny "diary" that was purchased from what he claims was a reputable auction house, but which I tracked down to being Alexander Auctions who are internationally known for selling fake Nazi memorabilia.
Served only to reopen the case dear. Unlike your Nazi conspiracy bingo. At the least the blurry image is actually real, and not a forgery. And it is only blurry because the web only has multiple generational copies of the frames. Getting the original will resolve that. There is no resolving (let alone excusing) the use of fake diaries.LS Voluminous, premature use (to the point of tragic comedy) of blurry images employed in defense of a sensational hypothesis served only to distract "the community" that already knew Oswald did not kill JFK. I continue to argue it was irresponsible from the outset.
The so-called vitriol is just tough love mixed with lampooning of your own calumny. Playing the victim, darlin'? What a surprise. They all do when other tactics fail.LS The vitriol is a character trait of ruffian personalities Constructive debate appears to be anathema for some.
More than a distraction - a downright fraud, even if you yourself have been just a useful idiot in the perpetuation of it.LS The suggestion that identifying who did kill JFK is a distraction is patently absurd, imo. It is possible that our pursuits might converge if only we were dealing with a collective of reasonable minds modeled on your own.
As for "reasonable minds" - that is nothing but a plea for everyone to suspend disbelief. Not gonna happen, darlin'. We may be far from perfect, but at least we are aware of the need for critical thinking, and trying to maintain it.
S1 If you're suggesting that we should just move along and not question whether the designated patsy identified in the Lafitte datebook would be effective if caught on film outside the building at the time shots were fired, we're at an impasse. Questioning the legitimacy of the datebook might be construed as a self-preservation tactic.
Talk about projection. No Sweetie, "self-preservation" is avoidance of sending it to the FBI, or at minimum, getting it scientifically and independently authenticated - by people or organizations you are actually willing to name.
But you have hit on the crux of your calumny. It has nothing to do with "blurry" images or being a "distraction". It has everything to do with PM eviscerating the guts of your game of Nazi Conspiracy Bingo.
Cries the lass as she drowns in a sea of imaginary Nazi conspirators.LS1 I'm not "overboard."
The idea that you can "bully" someone online into taking an active interest in an area of reserach is patently absurd. Which is why you will never catch Les providing any actual quotes as evidence.I'm pointing out that Prayer Man — by sheer bullying in many instances — seized the attention of amateur researchers who might have contributed to tracking down the killers instead. I remember early on, one of the primary promoters of Shane's theory said that he didn't give a fxxk who killed Kennedy.
For starters, forums and social media have the options of blocking such people. But no - Les has these "victims" of bullying not only taking no action against the "bullies", she has them complying with the purpose of said bullying, Les has a very low opinion of the brainpower of her fellow "researchers."
Perhaps instead, she will start claiming all of these "distracted" researchers are actually victims of ROKC mind control? I would not put it past the poor desperate dear.
Not giving a fuck ABOUT THEORIZING on the subject, sweetie. Or using it as the basis for an even mildly amusing game of Nazi Conspiracy Bingo!I remember early on, one of the primary promoters of Shane's theory said that he didn't give a fxxk who killed Kennedy.
And anyway, who the fuck is Shane?
Re: Reality Checks
Sun 23 Jul 2023, 12:17 am
END OF DEBATE
This is what makes us ROKC!
Proud to be one of us.
This is what makes us ROKC!
Proud to be one of us.
- lanceman
- Posts : 325
Join date : 2021-02-04
Re: Reality Checks
Sun 23 Jul 2023, 10:12 am
“And anyway, who the fuck is Shane?”
I was wondering that as well. I think she was referring to Sean Murphy.
I was wondering that as well. I think she was referring to Sean Murphy.
- Vinny
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Join date : 2013-08-27
Re: Reality Checks
Sun 23 Jul 2023, 10:21 pm
barto wrote:END OF DEBATE
This is what makes us ROKC!
Proud to be one of us.
I second that.
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- Roger Odisio
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Re: Reality Checks
Mon 24 Jul 2023, 6:36 am
You may have noticed, Greg, that this was point I dropped out of my conversation with Leslie. I think the crucial factor was when she again tried to cast doubt that the figure on the steps could be Oswald because that means he wasn't an effective patsy! I answered that silly point the first three times she made it, but not again.
Anyway, your answers are much more pungent than mine would have been. I think we both know that will change nothing.
Anyway, your answers are much more pungent than mine would have been. I think we both know that will change nothing.
Re: Reality Checks
Mon 24 Jul 2023, 8:35 am
- steely_dan
- Posts : 2292
Join date : 2014-08-03
Age : 61
Re: Reality Checks
Mon 24 Jul 2023, 10:04 am
She is Brian Doyle in drag...
_________________
You ain't gonna know what you learn if you knew it.......
Checkmate.
Re: Reality Checks
Mon 24 Jul 2023, 8:56 pm
The question on everyone's lips.steely_dan wrote:She is Brian Doyle in drag...
Does she do car wash routines?
_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise.
Lachie Hulme
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
Me
"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." Don Jeffries
"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott
https://gregrparker.com
- JonathanCohen
- Posts : 17
Join date : 2023-01-15
Re: Reality Checks
Tue 25 Jul 2023, 8:08 am
I think I've finally given up too, Roger. What with this, all the Nazi-themed bullshit, and the revolving door of MAGA trolls, the Ed Forum has become a truly sad state of affairs.
- lanceman
- Posts : 325
Join date : 2021-02-04
Re: Reality Checks
Tue 25 Jul 2023, 10:40 am
JonathanCohen wrote:I think I've finally given up too, Roger. What with this, all the Nazi-themed bullshit, and the revolving door of MAGA trolls, the Ed Forum has become a truly sad state of affairs.
Jonathan, could you ask the limo stopped people how the secret service car avoided plowing into the presidential limo or pinning Clint Hill between the two vehicles?
- Vinny
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Join date : 2013-08-27
Re: Reality Checks
Tue 25 Jul 2023, 7:11 pm
She gets quite defensive whenever anyone brings up the question of authenticating the date book.
_________________
Out With Bill Shelley In Front.
- Jake_Sykes
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Re: Reality Checks
Tue 25 Jul 2023, 11:13 pm
Vinny wrote:She gets quite defensive whenever anyone brings up the question of authenticating the date book.
It's significant isn't it Vinny? If one believes in truth as we do, then we are eager to get clear scans to either prove or disprove Oswald on the steps. We don't get defensive or shy away from the notion of our evidence being questioned or even dis-proven. We want the truth. She may be afraid of the truth if it messes with her designs.
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Release clear scans. Reveal the truth about Prayer Man. Preserve the history of the assassination of JFK.
- lanceman
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Join date : 2021-02-04
Re: Reality Checks
Tue 25 Jul 2023, 11:26 pm
Vinny wrote:She gets quite defensive whenever anyone brings up the question of authenticating the date book.
While there is a motivation to forge documents associated with significant historical figures, this Laffite guy is pretty obscure, at least to me. Nevertheless, she has drawn some extraordinary conclusions from the date book which would require a determination of its authenticity. It should have been the first thing she did after reaching these conclusions.
But once you get invested in and wedded into a theory, it becomes psychologically much more difficult to subject it to tests that could falsify it.
Re: Reality Checks
Wed 26 Jul 2023, 12:17 am
Vinny wrote:She gets quite defensive whenever anyone brings up the question of authenticating the date book.
That is because it all hangs on that damn thing….
- lanceman
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Join date : 2021-02-04
Re: Reality Checks
Wed 26 Jul 2023, 2:23 am
Does she have a book contract in the works?
- Vinny
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Join date : 2013-08-27
Re: Reality Checks
Wed 26 Jul 2023, 8:06 pm
Agreed Jake, Bart and Lance. She seems to be afraid that it might be proven to be a fraud. However even some at the EF are not willing to assume it is genuine and have requested authentication.
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- Vinny
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Re: Reality Checks
Wed 26 Jul 2023, 8:08 pm
lanceman wrote:Does she have a book contract in the works?
Coup in Dallas is in a way her book. She is the co author and continued the project after Hank died.
_________________
Out With Bill Shelley In Front.
Re: Reality Checks
Thu 27 Jul 2023, 1:03 pm
"Pofessional ethics". She is a laff riot. It is being used in the same manner and for the same purpose as when the government invokes "national security" to deny access and to obscure or hide the truth and bad behavior.la (S)harpie wrote:Yes, I would object to interference as I have noted to prominent authors who have wanted to pursue Hank's sources but have deferred to professional ethics, and hopefully to me as a colleague, that they will not obstruct the process in play. They are each under Non-Disclosure Agreements.
Same goes for non-disclosure agreements which once had the sole purpose of protecting commercial interests, but now are widely used in journalism to hide bullshit.
The reason many of these men felt protected from the consequences of their own bad behavior is largely the same reason many corporations are confident their embarrassing revelations will never come out: Once a quirk of the technology industry, non-disclosure agreements (NDAs) have proliferated across the business landscape, purportedly placing every secret, every item of misconduct out of public view—or more specifically outside of the view of some inquiring journalist who might want to expose a misdeed.
these quotes are from https://www.cjr.org/special_report/nda-agreement.phpNDAs are enormously controversial, even within the legal community. From one vantage—say that of an exceptionally cautious lawyer, or an exceptionally frightened employee—keeping silent is thought necessary to avoid hefty financial penalties. Another view holds that NDAs are often unenforceable, most clearly if the activity meant to be kept secret is illegal, and that even where a court might uphold the agreement, a lot of potential plaintiffs don’t want to have to give the other side discovery on their bad behavior. But if you’re not as brave as, say, Rose McGowan, if you’re not a reporter, if you think you might have something to lose, you’ll probably obey the words on the paper. You’ll probably keep quiet even if you have something to say, out of sheer fear about the consequences. Companies rely on everyone’s lack of knowledge about just what confidentiality agreements are—and how easily they might ruin you.
More vagueries to obscure her bullshit. Define "interference" and how specifically that may affect alleged joint-copyright. In fact, explain what the fuck is covered by the alleged joint copyright.Coup in Dallas is a joint-work copyright; the material Hank intended to include in additional publication is under that copyright. Interference would be subject to legal challenge.
There is even a chance Hank's death leaves her and Alan Kent as sole copyright owners of the work.
If this is the case, then she is hiding behind "joint copyright" to stop anyone looking at anything that might expose the con. But then, that also applied when Albarelli was still alive.ASSIGNMENT OF RIGHTS
Ownership of copyright rights can be transferred from one person to another by assignment, and when a person dies (under the person’s will, or under the rules that apply when someone dies without a will). Identifying the current owner of copyright often requires identifying the first owner of copyright and any subsequent transfers of ownership.
Even if that is not the case, she needs to make a conscious effort to cease being so fucking vague.
LOL, Trust me. Im a friend and supporter of con artists.Do not worry that the datebook is in a safe and secure location. Do not worry that the examination is ongoing but unfortunately incomplete. Do not worry that I am taking all necessary steps to access additional exemplars for final authentication.
Now, who were you accusing of what, in your comment?
And stop trying to bully my namesake. That's apparently my job. You can short-circuit the questioning anytime by simply answering relevant queries and observations in a straightforward NON VAGUE manner.
You know what. I should write a book called Albarelli's Terrible Mistakes! He has made some whoppers!
And the best part of it will be being completely and utterly transparent about the project.
Visiting the Thirteen Inch Head Emporium is like a trip down sideshow alley.
Take a walk with the inimitable Glenn Cardier
Re: Reality Checks
Thu 27 Jul 2023, 4:52 pm
It is going from bad to worse with Leslie sharp and she shows her true characteristics like she did at Morley's.
People do not change.
People do not change.
_________________
Prayer Man: More Than a Fuzzy Picture (E-)Book @ Amazon.
Prayer-Man.com
- alex_wilson
- Posts : 1333
Join date : 2019-04-10
Re: Reality Checks
Thu 27 Jul 2023, 9:21 pm
How many datebooks does a gullible person need?
Like the greedy peasant, Pahom, in Tolstoy's timeless parable, it's high time the true believers bestirred themselves from their dogmatic slumbers , and ( re) acquainted themselves with reality.
Even if that means landing with an unceremonious thump on terra firma, after floating around in the cotton candy coated clouds, smiling languidly over at the three headed dwarf, his looking glass tie reflecting the scribbled eulogy on the pig skin cover of the datebook he clutches as he hails a passing newspaper taxi to take him down to Dealey Plaza . Or cavorting with the multi limbed Shive like goddess of conspiracies past, present and future.
For in the land of conspiracy make believe no theory is ever truly forgotten
Tin foil hats off to Greg Doudna, who is playing an absolute blinder, retaining his composure, whilst not rising to the bait and lowering himself to La Sharp's level, Tom Gram and, credit where credit is due, Benjamin Cole.
The three of them are carefully, tenaciously and remorselessly shredding the phantastical datebook and it's stalwart acolytes few remaining meagre strands of credibility.
As is so often the case, it's not just the actual " evidence ", in this case a supposed " datebook " but the way it's been presented
Not to mention the antics of the presenters.
Putting it bluntly, it's transcendied the merely shoddy, even the downright suspicious; its become a complete fucking disgrace.
Ms Sharp doesn't appear to grasp the potential ramifications.
If genuine the datebook is without question one of ( arguably THE) most important, compelling pieces of evidence to emerge in 60 years.
Instead of playing her coquettish games, giggling breathlessly, like a soon to be deflowered ingenue at one of the Sun King's epic masquerades at Versailles, she should be as straightforward and transparent as possible.
From Australian production companies, to MI6(!) linked companies, to shadowy unnamed Ukrainian outfits, to waspish retorts about legal arrangements and confidentiality agreements; one minute hinting that it IS in fact in the process of being " tested "( whilst leaving the means, methods and perhaps, crucially, the actual testers suspiciously vague and unnamed) to manifesting an almost unbelievable belligerence.
Quoting the late Mr Albarelli's cry of defiance, " Take it or leave it "
Acting as if the very thought of having it tested is a wholly unreasonable, offensive even, imposition.
After Greg uncovered Ganis' , ahem, somewhat chequered past and his dealings with an " auction house " with a less than stellar reputation, followed by La Sharp's highly dubious performance, and, perhaps most troubling of all, the self destructively blaise attitude of the true believers brigade, let's just close our eyes and pretend it's genuine, I think it's ( long past the) time to say: enough is enough.
With something as potentially historic, history changing in fact. Something so controversial, something with such a dodgy past. No past would be more accurate. The datebook, the musings of an admitted high stakes con artist no less, chronicling his intimate role as " project manager " if the cabal responsible for the assassination, seemingly just dropped out of the skies
Materialising like some conspiratorial manna.
The author(s)/ publishers have a very clearly defined moral, ethical and legal responsibility to submit their artifact to the most rigorous independent scientific examination/ testing/ analysis, before publication
This should have been done immediately.
If they are as confident as they appear financial restraints should be meaningless. Think of the possible earning opportunities
Books, tv specials, films, articles....
This is the datebook of the guy who orchestrated the assassination of JFK for fuck sakes.
If the late Mr Albarelli was convinced it was authentic I cannot even begin to fathom why he acted in such an irresponsible, cavalier manner.
Pretending its genuine is utter fucking self destructive insanity. Ensuring more layers of bullshit get heaped on the already stinking edifice.
We're back from holiday next week, first thing I'm going to do is join the Education forum and start providing a historically accurate antidote to Mr Montenegro's ever more bizarre concoctions
I'm not qualified to offer a detailed rebuttal of his archival research, but as for his various Nazi Bingo calls? Believe me, any self respecting undergraduate could easily disassemble his spurious construct
A large percentage of the errors are as basic as what, in my opinion, is the single most deceptive tidbit peddled about Skorzeny's wartime record: namely the Gran Sasso raid
How many false confessions, fake witnesses, hoaxes , shysters, James Files, Judyth Baker, Tosh Plumlee and Wynne Johnsons is it going to take?
Before the true believers at the innermost core of the so called " research community " begin to wake up?
How many bumps and bruises caused by colliding with the actual facts is it going to take before the scales begin to finally drop from their eyes
I'm not trying to sound superior, or gratuitously sneering, and I'm most certainly not trying to seem disrespectful, I genuinely can't believe how gullible some of these characters are.
They speak of Coup, or the Unspeakable, or Armstrong forbid, HARVEY and LEE itself the way fundamentalists speak of their holy books
Instead of cleaning themselves of sin, they seem hellbent on ridding themselves of the last vestiges of rational thought
Earnestly scouring this latest piece of proto Fezzian minimalist gibberish; a delirious semi coherent scribble, allegedly revealing Lafittes " Secret world " or some such bewitchingly conspiratorial concept, ..
Personally I'm reminded of the ill fated occasion Fezzo spiked his pet spider, Marguerite IV, with LSD causing it to meander hazily across his new Spot the Dog Goes Conspiracing Colouring Book
Examining it reverently, as if it contains some deep conspira theological knowledge
It's almost as if some individuals are determined to make this case utterly unsolvable. Piling layer upon layer of bullshit and fantasy, until the giant multi tiered monstrosity, caked it sickly over sugared confection and garish swirls of pink icing, resembles the wedding cake, baked by a certain Cancun based catering company for the double alchemical wedding of HARVEY, his Juddufki, his fake mom and one of the hitherto anonymous bullpen back up Oswalds, she met while taking Spotty the dog to the vet in Bradenton, after he was attacked by a swarm of mutant white mice
On a personal note, due to family connections, I'm really fucking offended by Popeye Bob's offhand comments about Spain.
Referring to it as " a clerico fascist dictatorship "
If he means contemporary Spain he knows even less than I ever could have possibly imagined
If he's talking about Franco's regime, he's adopting the lazy cliched shorthand of poorly informed outside observers.
First and foremost Franco was a traditionalist. A monarchist. A product of the military caste at a very particular moment in Spain's history. Intoxicated by delusions of Spain's Imperial past ( notoriously at their only meeting at Hendaye- the 8 hour + encounter caused the exasperated Fuhrer to grumble, " instead of meeting that man again I'd prefer to have some teeth pulled out "- he offered to enter the war on the Axis side, in return for the French colonies in Africa) he was a pragmatist. Utilising the Falange to help him ascend to supreme power, but careful to sideline it, after first emasculating it as a viable political force.
The resultant party, the comically monikered FET y Las JONS was a cipher, merely a tool of Franco's personal rule
He did however tolerate the extravagant pseudo religious cult of the Falange founder( and son of the erstwhile dictator) Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera
Who was safely dead( indeed they were destined to spend eternity side by side, lying in the grim mausoleum beneath the horrific monument to slave labour that was El Valle De Los Caidos
Although he adopted certain fascist concepts: autarky and strict vertical rule, not to mention his reliance on a police state, fundamentally Franco was a traditionalist. A pragmatic realist and a technocrat
This subject is far too complicated to be dealt with so superficially, but it just pisses me off to read the same old shite endlessly regurgitated
Popeye Bob strikes me as the sort of character who labels anyone who has the temerity to disagree with him a fascist, right wing activist, or variations thereof
The datebook may well ultimately turn out to be the assassination research equivalent of the Necromicon, or even it's doppelcentric near doppelganger, the Doppelchronicon
Like the greedy peasant, Pahom, in Tolstoy's timeless parable, it's high time the true believers bestirred themselves from their dogmatic slumbers , and ( re) acquainted themselves with reality.
Even if that means landing with an unceremonious thump on terra firma, after floating around in the cotton candy coated clouds, smiling languidly over at the three headed dwarf, his looking glass tie reflecting the scribbled eulogy on the pig skin cover of the datebook he clutches as he hails a passing newspaper taxi to take him down to Dealey Plaza . Or cavorting with the multi limbed Shive like goddess of conspiracies past, present and future.
For in the land of conspiracy make believe no theory is ever truly forgotten
Tin foil hats off to Greg Doudna, who is playing an absolute blinder, retaining his composure, whilst not rising to the bait and lowering himself to La Sharp's level, Tom Gram and, credit where credit is due, Benjamin Cole.
The three of them are carefully, tenaciously and remorselessly shredding the phantastical datebook and it's stalwart acolytes few remaining meagre strands of credibility.
As is so often the case, it's not just the actual " evidence ", in this case a supposed " datebook " but the way it's been presented
Not to mention the antics of the presenters.
Putting it bluntly, it's transcendied the merely shoddy, even the downright suspicious; its become a complete fucking disgrace.
Ms Sharp doesn't appear to grasp the potential ramifications.
If genuine the datebook is without question one of ( arguably THE) most important, compelling pieces of evidence to emerge in 60 years.
Instead of playing her coquettish games, giggling breathlessly, like a soon to be deflowered ingenue at one of the Sun King's epic masquerades at Versailles, she should be as straightforward and transparent as possible.
From Australian production companies, to MI6(!) linked companies, to shadowy unnamed Ukrainian outfits, to waspish retorts about legal arrangements and confidentiality agreements; one minute hinting that it IS in fact in the process of being " tested "( whilst leaving the means, methods and perhaps, crucially, the actual testers suspiciously vague and unnamed) to manifesting an almost unbelievable belligerence.
Quoting the late Mr Albarelli's cry of defiance, " Take it or leave it "
Acting as if the very thought of having it tested is a wholly unreasonable, offensive even, imposition.
After Greg uncovered Ganis' , ahem, somewhat chequered past and his dealings with an " auction house " with a less than stellar reputation, followed by La Sharp's highly dubious performance, and, perhaps most troubling of all, the self destructively blaise attitude of the true believers brigade, let's just close our eyes and pretend it's genuine, I think it's ( long past the) time to say: enough is enough.
With something as potentially historic, history changing in fact. Something so controversial, something with such a dodgy past. No past would be more accurate. The datebook, the musings of an admitted high stakes con artist no less, chronicling his intimate role as " project manager " if the cabal responsible for the assassination, seemingly just dropped out of the skies
Materialising like some conspiratorial manna.
The author(s)/ publishers have a very clearly defined moral, ethical and legal responsibility to submit their artifact to the most rigorous independent scientific examination/ testing/ analysis, before publication
This should have been done immediately.
If they are as confident as they appear financial restraints should be meaningless. Think of the possible earning opportunities
Books, tv specials, films, articles....
This is the datebook of the guy who orchestrated the assassination of JFK for fuck sakes.
If the late Mr Albarelli was convinced it was authentic I cannot even begin to fathom why he acted in such an irresponsible, cavalier manner.
Pretending its genuine is utter fucking self destructive insanity. Ensuring more layers of bullshit get heaped on the already stinking edifice.
We're back from holiday next week, first thing I'm going to do is join the Education forum and start providing a historically accurate antidote to Mr Montenegro's ever more bizarre concoctions
I'm not qualified to offer a detailed rebuttal of his archival research, but as for his various Nazi Bingo calls? Believe me, any self respecting undergraduate could easily disassemble his spurious construct
A large percentage of the errors are as basic as what, in my opinion, is the single most deceptive tidbit peddled about Skorzeny's wartime record: namely the Gran Sasso raid
How many false confessions, fake witnesses, hoaxes , shysters, James Files, Judyth Baker, Tosh Plumlee and Wynne Johnsons is it going to take?
Before the true believers at the innermost core of the so called " research community " begin to wake up?
How many bumps and bruises caused by colliding with the actual facts is it going to take before the scales begin to finally drop from their eyes
I'm not trying to sound superior, or gratuitously sneering, and I'm most certainly not trying to seem disrespectful, I genuinely can't believe how gullible some of these characters are.
They speak of Coup, or the Unspeakable, or Armstrong forbid, HARVEY and LEE itself the way fundamentalists speak of their holy books
Instead of cleaning themselves of sin, they seem hellbent on ridding themselves of the last vestiges of rational thought
Earnestly scouring this latest piece of proto Fezzian minimalist gibberish; a delirious semi coherent scribble, allegedly revealing Lafittes " Secret world " or some such bewitchingly conspiratorial concept, ..
Personally I'm reminded of the ill fated occasion Fezzo spiked his pet spider, Marguerite IV, with LSD causing it to meander hazily across his new Spot the Dog Goes Conspiracing Colouring Book
Examining it reverently, as if it contains some deep conspira theological knowledge
It's almost as if some individuals are determined to make this case utterly unsolvable. Piling layer upon layer of bullshit and fantasy, until the giant multi tiered monstrosity, caked it sickly over sugared confection and garish swirls of pink icing, resembles the wedding cake, baked by a certain Cancun based catering company for the double alchemical wedding of HARVEY, his Juddufki, his fake mom and one of the hitherto anonymous bullpen back up Oswalds, she met while taking Spotty the dog to the vet in Bradenton, after he was attacked by a swarm of mutant white mice
On a personal note, due to family connections, I'm really fucking offended by Popeye Bob's offhand comments about Spain.
Referring to it as " a clerico fascist dictatorship "
If he means contemporary Spain he knows even less than I ever could have possibly imagined
If he's talking about Franco's regime, he's adopting the lazy cliched shorthand of poorly informed outside observers.
First and foremost Franco was a traditionalist. A monarchist. A product of the military caste at a very particular moment in Spain's history. Intoxicated by delusions of Spain's Imperial past ( notoriously at their only meeting at Hendaye- the 8 hour + encounter caused the exasperated Fuhrer to grumble, " instead of meeting that man again I'd prefer to have some teeth pulled out "- he offered to enter the war on the Axis side, in return for the French colonies in Africa) he was a pragmatist. Utilising the Falange to help him ascend to supreme power, but careful to sideline it, after first emasculating it as a viable political force.
The resultant party, the comically monikered FET y Las JONS was a cipher, merely a tool of Franco's personal rule
He did however tolerate the extravagant pseudo religious cult of the Falange founder( and son of the erstwhile dictator) Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera
Who was safely dead( indeed they were destined to spend eternity side by side, lying in the grim mausoleum beneath the horrific monument to slave labour that was El Valle De Los Caidos
Although he adopted certain fascist concepts: autarky and strict vertical rule, not to mention his reliance on a police state, fundamentally Franco was a traditionalist. A pragmatic realist and a technocrat
This subject is far too complicated to be dealt with so superficially, but it just pisses me off to read the same old shite endlessly regurgitated
Popeye Bob strikes me as the sort of character who labels anyone who has the temerity to disagree with him a fascist, right wing activist, or variations thereof
The datebook may well ultimately turn out to be the assassination research equivalent of the Necromicon, or even it's doppelcentric near doppelganger, the Doppelchronicon
_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III
Bosworth Field 1485
Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963
For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging
" To answer your question I ALWAYS look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen From his soon to be published self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day Foreword Vince Palamara)
" Once you prove Davidson's woman's face then Stanton's breasts follow naturally " Brian Doyle
- Jake_Sykes
- Posts : 1100
Join date : 2016-08-15
Re: Reality Checks
Fri 28 Jul 2023, 11:48 am
"waspish retorts about legal arrangements and confidentiality agreements". I never could have put into words what exactly it is about her that grates on me as much as it does. Thanks for taking care of that for me Alex.
Until proven otherwise, I shall regard the datebook as a work of fiction.
Until proven otherwise, I shall regard the datebook as a work of fiction.
_________________
Release clear scans. Reveal the truth about Prayer Man. Preserve the history of the assassination of JFK.
Re: Reality Checks
Fri 28 Jul 2023, 5:48 pm
As fake as a £3.00 coin!
_________________
Prayer Man: More Than a Fuzzy Picture (E-)Book @ Amazon.
Prayer-Man.com
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