Reality Checks

https://www.tracesofwar.com/articles/4916/Skorzeny-Otto.htm wrote:Odessa must therefore be seen as an all encompassing description of various regional groups, rather than as one entity with a clearly defined program. The real purpose of these various organizations like Odessa, the Spinne and Stille Hilfe (silent aid) was not the establishment of a Nazi international movement but rendering aid and support to evade arrest and to have the necessary means at hand in order to survive. It entailed things like forging identity papers, providing shelter and assistance to get members across borders. There may have been of course international meetings of former members of the SS and SD with impossibly far reaching ambitions. Whatever it is, as is often the case with myths, in the long run they tend to start leading their own lives. For instance in the 50s, journalistic concoctions made the Spandau prisoners go crazy. According to rumors at the time, Skorzeny would have attempted to liberate the prisoners in Spandau using two helicopters and a hundred men. At the same time, a coup would take place and a new government installed, headed by Karl Dönitz (Bio Dönitz). The danger posed by these clandestine organizations of former SS members is rather exaggerated. It may well be Allied intelligence services may have considered them for years as a potential nucleus of a rebirth of Nazism, seen from the paranoid spirit at the time.

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Apart from misplaced romantics of war, it can be argued that Skorzeny has evolved into an icon of irregular warfare from which lessons have been drawn for the post war period also. The importance of a man like Skorzeny lies in the political-military powers of invention on the battlefield casting doubt on the conventional military way of thinking. However, Skorzeny remains a dark figure of whom it cannot be determined what to put on his record and what not. There is nothing else to do than add question marks and annotations to parts of some conspiracy theories.

https://warriormaven.com/history/nazi-commando-otto-skorzeny-continued-his-life-of-intrigue-after-the-war-1 wrote:With so many ex-Nazis living in Spain, Skorzeny tried to find employment with them. His American handler wrote reports of the former commando trying to work with aircraft designer Willi Messerschmitt and steel tycoon Otto Wolff, but little happened.

He kept talking about his plan to reform the German army to almost anyone who would listen. Despite his special forces experience, Skorzeny couldn’t keep his mouth shut. He spoke of preparing 200,000 men to defend Germany from the Soviets and claimed the Americans backed his efforts. The CIA knew of the plan but worried about a reformation of the Third Reich and provided nothing.

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Through the 1950s Skorzeny remained involved with right wing organizations and often worked with other S.S. veterans, but his reputation as the mastermind of a secret Nazi society was exaggerated. He took a job as an “import-export manager” in Spain and traveled widely, including visits to Egypt and Argentina. Rumors he slept with Eva Peron proved false. She died two years before he ever set foot there.

In Egypt he secretly tried to sell arms and become a military advisor to Gamal Abdel Nasser, but again little came of it. His presence in Cairo caused a stir just the same and even caused British intelligence to worry he was training Egyptian paratroopers to seize the Suez Canal. His only real successes during this time came with his alleged cover story — he got contracts signed on several concrete and steel sales. This brought in some $260,000 over the next several years, equivalent to over $2 million today.

By the 1960s the aging Skorzeny continued to dabble in arms sales, increasing his fortune. His reputation meant his name circulated wherever intrigue occurred, such as during the kidnapping of Adolph Eichmann. He met with Israeli agents during the 1960s, but as with so much about Skorzeny, we know few details.

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/343438616.pdf wrote:All mentioned aspects offer evidence, that Skorzeny’s narrative and his conduct of Unternehmen Eiche may be exaggerated. But, NS-propaganda made him to the recognizable commando and therefore, this section will also focus on the presentation of Unternehmen Eiche. The propaganda about Skorzeny was not preplanned, but fitted perfectly into the narrative, which was needed at the time.  The existing German military capability to conduct these types of operations and the still existing bravery should be shown to German citizens and Germany’s opponents. Also, the SS-member, Otto Skorzeny was depicted and still perceived as the ideal German soldier, who fights although circumstances may be difficult. Goebbels himself stated in his diary, that he wanted to eradicate varying narratives about Mussolini’s liberation, a decision that continues to influence how many perceive Otto Skorzeny’s role during Unternehmen Eiche.


These details reveal that Skorzeny was unable to plan and conduct a mission with special paratrooper equipment like gliders at Gran Sasso because of his lack of experience and knowledge about these issues. Furthermore, his men were also incapable of conducting this mission alone. Skorzeny never commanded an engaged unit in Italy except z.b.V. Friedenthal, but cooperated and supported with those, which were tasked. Nevertheless, he was there at Gran Sasso and did play a role in the bloodless rescue of Mussolini and therefore, Skorzeny was used strategically by NS-propaganda to demonstrate German military strength and to inspire the German peoples’ belief in their nation’s victory.

The idea that a vestibule could be on the second floor is foreign to me.  It's not just you Australians.

Alex Wilson wrote:The Lovely Linda's campaign has been absolutely disastrous. Petulant,  defensive,  uncooperative,  lacking a basic transparency and candour. 

A total mess.

Threatening Doug Campbell with legal action was just downright pathetic.

Imho she allowed ego, ambition and her obsession with Miss Marple like whodunnit parlour games to get the better of her. And, unfortunately,  after Mr Albarelli's untimely death,  she's been left carrying the can.

Jake_Sykes wrote:

The idea that a vestibule could be on the second floor is foreign to me.  It's not just you Australians.

As an American architect, allow me to say; any primary source individual who would refer to the small corridor space outside of the lunchroom on the 2nd floor as a "vestibule" is willfully ignorant and possessing of an ulterior motive having to do with relocating an encounter that occurred on the First Floor in a vestibule, to a fictional one supposedly occurring on the Second Floor.


I say "willfully ignorant" because to have the vocabulary to use the word implies a level of intelligence that would necessarily understand the meaning of the word.

barto wrote:

linda o'hara aka leslie sharp wrote:I remember debating the interpretation of the notes as an exercise mostly to emphasize that Australians didn't "speak Dallas."

I wonder if Bart has read Coup? 

RO: I'm familiar with the word, vestibule.  One of the houses I grew up in had one. You opened the front door and there was a small space which led you to second door to enter the main house. If I remember it was for things like taking off your boots if you were coming in out of the snow, before entering the house.

steely_dan wrote:She's American. It works inland. Doesn't travel well...

pat speer wrote:I wish people would stop claiming the Hosty "notes" in question were written during his interview with Oswald. There is no reason to believe they were, outside desperation. He published his actual notes in his book. Those were sentence fragments--the way one takes actual notes. The fuller sentences of the notes in question suggest they were written as an outline for a report. Now, it's always been curious that Bookhout wrote a report by himself, and then one with Hosty. Perhaps this was done to cover up that Hosty's own report suggested Oswald had given an alibi, or some such thing. So the "notes" found later may indeed be important.

But there's no reason to believe they were written during the interview. 

Yes, Bart has a link to Hosty's notes. Written during the interrogation (one) & directly after (two).  Hosty passed his notes to the ARRB in '97.  The book also links to the Fritz notes that were also donated to the ARRB in '97.

Linda/leslie wrote:Roger, has Bart cleared up the discrepancy that on at least one occasion Hosty is filmed stating Oswald told him he was in the lunch room?