Reality Checks

First topic message reminder :

https://www.tracesofwar.com/articles/4916/Skorzeny-Otto.htm wrote:Odessa must therefore be seen as an all encompassing description of various regional groups, rather than as one entity with a clearly defined program. The real purpose of these various organizations like Odessa, the Spinne and Stille Hilfe (silent aid) was not the establishment of a Nazi international movement but rendering aid and support to evade arrest and to have the necessary means at hand in order to survive. It entailed things like forging identity papers, providing shelter and assistance to get members across borders. There may have been of course international meetings of former members of the SS and SD with impossibly far reaching ambitions. Whatever it is, as is often the case with myths, in the long run they tend to start leading their own lives. For instance in the 50s, journalistic concoctions made the Spandau prisoners go crazy. According to rumors at the time, Skorzeny would have attempted to liberate the prisoners in Spandau using two helicopters and a hundred men. At the same time, a coup would take place and a new government installed, headed by Karl Dönitz (Bio Dönitz). The danger posed by these clandestine organizations of former SS members is rather exaggerated. It may well be Allied intelligence services may have considered them for years as a potential nucleus of a rebirth of Nazism, seen from the paranoid spirit at the time.

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Apart from misplaced romantics of war, it can be argued that Skorzeny has evolved into an icon of irregular warfare from which lessons have been drawn for the post war period also. The importance of a man like Skorzeny lies in the political-military powers of invention on the battlefield casting doubt on the conventional military way of thinking. However, Skorzeny remains a dark figure of whom it cannot be determined what to put on his record and what not. There is nothing else to do than add question marks and annotations to parts of some conspiracy theories.

https://warriormaven.com/history/nazi-commando-otto-skorzeny-continued-his-life-of-intrigue-after-the-war-1 wrote:With so many ex-Nazis living in Spain, Skorzeny tried to find employment with them. His American handler wrote reports of the former commando trying to work with aircraft designer Willi Messerschmitt and steel tycoon Otto Wolff, but little happened.

He kept talking about his plan to reform the German army to almost anyone who would listen. Despite his special forces experience, Skorzeny couldn’t keep his mouth shut. He spoke of preparing 200,000 men to defend Germany from the Soviets and claimed the Americans backed his efforts. The CIA knew of the plan but worried about a reformation of the Third Reich and provided nothing.

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Through the 1950s Skorzeny remained involved with right wing organizations and often worked with other S.S. veterans, but his reputation as the mastermind of a secret Nazi society was exaggerated. He took a job as an “import-export manager” in Spain and traveled widely, including visits to Egypt and Argentina. Rumors he slept with Eva Peron proved false. She died two years before he ever set foot there.

In Egypt he secretly tried to sell arms and become a military advisor to Gamal Abdel Nasser, but again little came of it. His presence in Cairo caused a stir just the same and even caused British intelligence to worry he was training Egyptian paratroopers to seize the Suez Canal. His only real successes during this time came with his alleged cover story — he got contracts signed on several concrete and steel sales. This brought in some $260,000 over the next several years, equivalent to over $2 million today.

By the 1960s the aging Skorzeny continued to dabble in arms sales, increasing his fortune. His reputation meant his name circulated wherever intrigue occurred, such as during the kidnapping of Adolph Eichmann. He met with Israeli agents during the 1960s, but as with so much about Skorzeny, we know few details.

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/343438616.pdf wrote:All mentioned aspects offer evidence, that Skorzeny’s narrative and his conduct of Unternehmen Eiche may be exaggerated. But, NS-propaganda made him to the recognizable commando and therefore, this section will also focus on the presentation of Unternehmen Eiche. The propaganda about Skorzeny was not preplanned, but fitted perfectly into the narrative, which was needed at the time.  The existing German military capability to conduct these types of operations and the still existing bravery should be shown to German citizens and Germany’s opponents. Also, the SS-member, Otto Skorzeny was depicted and still perceived as the ideal German soldier, who fights although circumstances may be difficult. Goebbels himself stated in his diary, that he wanted to eradicate varying narratives about Mussolini’s liberation, a decision that continues to influence how many perceive Otto Skorzeny’s role during Unternehmen Eiche.


These details reveal that Skorzeny was unable to plan and conduct a mission with special paratrooper equipment like gliders at Gran Sasso because of his lack of experience and knowledge about these issues. Furthermore, his men were also incapable of conducting this mission alone. Skorzeny never commanded an engaged unit in Italy except z.b.V. Friedenthal, but cooperated and supported with those, which were tasked. Nevertheless, he was there at Gran Sasso and did play a role in the bloodless rescue of Mussolini and therefore, Skorzeny was used strategically by NS-propaganda to demonstrate German military strength and to inspire the German peoples’ belief in their nation’s victory.

Skorzeny was the archetypal cartoon Nazi villian - a perfect foil for a Dudley Doorite type character. 

He was in the right places and had the right look and personality to be elevated in stature and heroics for propaganda purposes.  He would spend the rest of his life parlaying the legends created about him, into a comfortable and intersting existence. Today, he would have made a great travel vlogger. 

Unfortunately, as with the asssassination, gaps in knowledge regarding Skorzeny get filled with more legend-building - and it was only a matter of time before that ever-growing legend nudged its way into assassination lore.

What a fucking clusterfuck. 

Where's Dudley Doorite when you really need him?

Doug Caddy probably believes the fucking MJ12 documents are genuine 

The whole Coup in Dallas fantasy could almost have been designed with the box office in mind. 

They've attempted to transform Otto Skorzeny into the ultimate cartoon Nazi supervillain.

It's nothing more than a pernicious charade. All joking aside I genuinely thought Messrs Larsen and Knight ( especially the latter) were above this, disagreements and good natured badinage aside I thought,  fundamentally,  they were decent guys, who possess integrity and an overriding sense of morality. 

But to allow their precious forum to turned into a shady market stall? Allowing someone to breach their own fucking rules with seeming impunity,  while facilitating what appears to be nothing more than a tawdry con job and a blatant attempt to monetize an almost certainly fraudulent " datebook "?

It's a goddamn fucking disgrace. 

Datebook aside, they don't seem to care, in fact it seems barely to have even registered,  that a wholly spurious narrative is being ruthlessly touted. 

Imho Montenegro is being used. His frailties and his treasured self perceptions have been expertly manipulated. 

As for the motivations of the delightfully charming Ms O Hara,  aside from the obvious ( financial) I'll keep my own counsel.

It's been a gut wrenching,  stomach churning display of callous cynicism,  outright chicanery and naked avarice. 

Apart from Greg D , Tom, Doug and Ben,  every other contributor should hang their head in shame, and undertake a serious reappraisal,  a process of introspection and self examination,  ultimately re examining their primary motivations. 

Certain characters desire to find Nazis lurking under every rock, combined with an often stunning gullibility provides a ready made constituency ( and potential revenue stream) for unscrupulous charlatans

I don't really understand a lot of this, but in her posting of Dick Russel's foreward to the book, Russell makes it clear: 

Russell wrote:

"The Lafitte Datebook: A Limited Analysis

by Dick Russell

 

Author of The Man Who Knew Too Much (1992), On the Trail of the JFK Assassins (2008), and They Killed Our President!With Jesse Ventura (2013).[HC1] 
            Submitted September 13, 2018, upon request of a film production company interested in developing a documentary focused on the book initially titled Coup in Dallas: Who Killed JFK and Why." 
            Pending verification by forensic document specialists and handwriting experts,

That's the whole thing isn't it? That the names could match up to others is either some sort of affirmation, or a  borrowing from the cast of characters in JFK Assassination lore. One would think that it is imperative that it be verified. Perhaps she knows that it may not be, which would downplay Coup in Dallas, and that was Abarelli's Last stand. She doesn't want him proven wrong--and lose his legacy.
That makes sense to me.  



(Sorry guys. I always look at these situations as if I'm watching TV, and trying to figure out what's gonna happen    )



And the Aginsky thing?  I looked him up, and  he looks VERY competent, but I can't figure this out.  Ya gotta find someone of Aginsky's caliber, but you can't talk to him because of NDA? So if it is legit, why not let the world know, and increase the book sales and Abarelli's research?  Get a letter from Aginsky saying 'We have found it to be genuine".  Perhaps  Aginsky denied its authenticity, or put it into question, and was slapped with an NDA so he cannot reveal the results. The Aussie Company backs out, and we are where we are.



So, can someone explain to me what the parameters are for Greg aside from not being able to ask Aginsky?  If he finds another expert, do they have to do an NDA as well?  So we'll never know?  I can't figure out what he is supposed to do.

Its me wrote:I don't really understand a lot of this, but in her posting of Dick Russel's foreward to the book, Russell makes it clear: 

Russell wrote:

"The Lafitte Datebook: A Limited Analysis

by Dick Russell

 

Author of The Man Who Knew Too Much (1992), On the Trail of the JFK Assassins (2008), and They Killed Our President!With Jesse Ventura (2013).[HC1] 
            Submitted September 13, 2018, upon request of a film production company interested in developing a documentary focused on the book initially titled Coup in Dallas: Who Killed JFK and Why." 
            Pending verification by forensic document specialists and handwriting experts,

That's the whole thing isn't it? That the names could match up to others is either some sort of affirmation, or a  borrowing from the cast of characters in JFK Assassination lore. One would think that it is imperative that it be verified. Perhaps she knows that it may not be, which would downplay Coup in Dallas, and that was Abarelli's Last stand. She doesn't want him proven wrong--and lose his legacy.
That makes sense to me.  



(Sorry guys. I always look at these situations as if I'm watching TV, and trying to figure out what's gonna happen    )



And the Aginsky thing?  I looked him up, and  he looks VERY competent, but I can't figure this out.  Ya gotta find someone of Aginsky's caliber, but you can't talk to him because of NDA? So if it is legit, why not let the world know, and increase the book sales and Abarelli's research?  Get a letter from Aginsky saying 'We have found it to be genuine".  Perhaps  Aginsky denied its authenticity, or put it into question, and was slapped with an NDA so he cannot reveal the results. The Aussie Company backs out, and we are where we are.



So, can someone explain to me what the parameters are for Greg aside from not being able to ask Aginsky?  If he finds another expert, do they have to do an NDA as well?  So we'll never know?  I can't figure out what he is supposed to do.

Her posts and explanations are so convoluted and strewn with randomness that no one could possibly be confident they understand what she means. Which may be the whole point, She can later claim it means whatever suits her at any given time.

Ultimately,  she's proven to be her own worst enemy. 

Her one and only concern was/ is " the success of Coup" She's made this quite obvious. 

At the risk of being labelled a heretic and accused of sacrilege by the true believers, despite his enviable reputation I don't think much of Albarelli. His research skills,  his ethics or his choice of collaborator. 

I don't want to sound like a holier than thou pissant but( and at this point in time it's a huge fucking but) if he did discover the " datebook " , more or less a Rosette Stone , unlocking the most murky and deeply occluded riddles of the assassination,  he had a duty, an obligation,  to ensure the " physical instrument " and the information contained within received the widest possible dissemination. 

Without fear, favour or commercial considerations. 

It seems,  by his actions and the subsequent behaviour of his assistants/ amanuensis/ co author cum publicist,  his only duty was to his bank account. 

No matter how you look at it; how you attempt to spin it or dress it up,  replacing the ( rented) garish robes and the savage gleam of ( cut glass) bling with sackcloth and ( faux) humility,  the whole sordid convoluted saga- NDAs, shadowy film companies,  even shadowier personages,  Phen Lafitte,  Where Art Thou? etc- just looks exactly like what an ever increasing number of informed observers believe it was: a poorly conceived,  atrociously written and clumsily staged con job.

Leslie explains why she uses an alias.

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/29939-mary-haversticks-important-new-book-on-the-jfk-assassination/page/4/#comments



You might not remember, xxx, but the Veciana issue prompted my pen name.
Over dinner in our home, Scott Armstrong was adamant Veciana was telling the truth. In fact, my husband had to put the meal on the back burner while we waited for Scott because he was sitting in their SUV outside our casita talking to Marie Fonzi who had just agreed to turn Gaeton's archives over to MFF.  Jeff Morley, once Scott's protégé at WaPo, was involved in the transaction. As we know, Marie is confident Veciana was highly credible.
Once we settled around the table, I boldly asserted I thought Veciana's story was sketchy. It wasn't a cavalier comment. I had reason to question detail about the encounter in Dallas. Following a lovable (but patronizing nonetheless) metaphorical pat on the head from Scott, I recognized that challenging the status quo as determined by the inner-sanctum would be, well, challenging.
Scott's wife, my dear friend, dropped off Jeff's book the following day. I flipped to the index and noted he failed to pursue Win Scott's close ties to Al Ulmer. Russ Baker had stayed with us (another story!). I knew Jeff had missed a significant opportunity, so after twenty years of research I decided to join the public online fray at jfkfacts.
I didn't want to be intimidated by the possibility my good friend Scott -- who I care for and admire deeply -- might be hovering at jfkfacts, so, Leslie Sharp took form. When I finally fessed up, his wife laughed and whispered, I understand completely. 
Hank Albarelli followed jfkfacts around that time; four years later, he found Leslie Sharp on FB and the rest is history. He had no idea my friend, now married to Armstrong, had years earlier been married to John Marks who was among Hank's valued interviews for ATM.  Strange synchronicity.

Her explanation is horseshit, just like Leslie.
Cheers,
Ed